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11939 No. 11939 edit
Hello everyone ! Welcome to my first gameboard. As it is my first, I'd like to warn you that it might be painful to read.
Also, anyone can participate.
Anyway, enjoy yourselves !


Theseus's Paradox

Hello everyone ! Welcome to the Meta-World. I am your beloved host, Squitcher. You are called here to solve a series of impossible murder.
How ? Who ? And Why ? That is what you must find, go ahead and break the witch's illusion.
The rules are standard : Blue Truth denies the witch's illusion, Red Truth is an absolute truth.
I'll put in a little hint system for you however, I'll explain it after having told the story.

There, go ahead, immerse yourselves once again in the world of the Ushiromiya family, and welcome.. To Theseus's Paradox !

Last edited at 13/06/19(Wed)11:56:19
Expand all images
>> No. 11940 edit
PROLOGUE

15 June of the year 1986. Famous enterpreneur and billionaire Ushiromiya Kinzo succumbed of old age after a long and hard-working life.

As soon as the news came to be known, debate sprung over the partage of his humongous wealth among his children. Everyone but Krauss seemed to get the short end of the stick, and the other three children weren't going to let themselves be deprived of money they seemingly were in dire need of. Much to Krauss's dismay, and the others's joy, Genji announced that Kinzo had left a will that enounced the terms under which the heritage money would be split.

The terms were the following :
Krauss, Eva, Rudolf and Rosa along with their wives, husbands and children, were to go on the Island of Theseus, a island about a mile from Rokkenjima, which Kinzo had bought and owned in secret few decades ago, Genji, Kanon and Shannon would accompany them.
There, would they learn of the actual conditions of the heritage.
Of course, everyone was surprised to hear that such an island existed. But they waved it off as something the old man would do. Krauss was obviously bitter about it, but the others weren't really glad to learn of such a condition either. Kinzo's taste in the occult always had frightened them. God knows what plan had he came up with.

On the 20th of July, in the middle of Summer, captain Kuwabata led the group to the island of Theseus, they reached the island at 14:00.

Last edited at 13/06/08(Sat)11:06
>> No. 11941 edit
FIRST DAY : 20th JULY

The single guesthouse of the island was provided with about everything, had running water and electricity. The building was surprisingly clean, too. Genji explained that he monthly went there to clean the whole guesthouse. Since it wasn't big, only one day was needed to clean up the whole thing.
The island itself was considerably smaller than Rokkenjima. It had a small forest too, behind the mansion, but there was no possibility of getting lost in there, and no way anything could have been built inside.
The guesthouse was about average size, even though it had only one floor. It had a small amount of rooms, but the rooms themselves were surprisingly large, so much so that a whole family could have lived inside. If not for the fact that they only contained four beds, a huge table, some furniture and their own bathrooms. The toilets were, surprisingly, separate from the rooms.

Once they arrived, Genji handed each of the direct children an old-styled key. The one he handed to Krauss had the number one engraved in roman numbers on it, Eva had the number two on hers, Rudolf three and Rosa four.

“This is all according to Mr Kinzo's will.” Genji enounced calmly “These are the keys to your respectives rooms. Each of you will be asked to sleep in the same room as your family, the bedrooms are big enough to allow it.
The numbers on the keys correspond to the order of succession, but do not worry as the order itself will not matter in the process. Your respective rooms have that same number as well. These keys can also open most of the doors here, in case we servants aren't there to open them for you. The kitchen and servant room can only be opened by our keys though.
Be careful as to not lose these keys under any circumstances, as they will be needed later.”

He then handed the husbands, wives and children regular keys, their corresponding number written on it too. “These only open your respectives rooms, if you need to get inside your room when you're unaccompanied.”
“Finally” he said, “The dinner is planned for 18:30. You are for now simply invited to enjoy yourselves on the island. The parlor has got a billiard along with some other games. You can find books in your rooms. If any of you want something, we will be there.”

And so they did. It seemed so alien that Kinzo would offer them a relaxing time after all these years of scolding and anger that they couldn't help but pour their hearts whole into it.

At 18:30, they gathered in the dining room. This one was considerably larger than the one in the Ushiromiya mansion, and much more somptuous, so much so that it seemed like it was stolen from a meeting of billionaires.
They were then served dinner. As they all enjoyed their meal, Genji annouced the following : the four direct children of Kinzo would be expected here, in the dining room at 21:00, where a reunion of sorts would be held. Finally, the actual “ceremony” would finally be talked about.
The wives and husbands seemed the most anxious about it, since they were heavily involved in the financial affairs too, and the fact that they couldn't partake in that reunion angered them. But such was the will of Kinzo, and there was nothing they could do.
The children did not care for it, or at least pretended not to, Battler and Jessica bore disgusted faces when the topic of money and the heritage had sprung us, George silently listened, and Maria was completely oblivious to it, prefering to draw animals with her fork in her mashed potatoes, before getting scolded by Rosa.
The dinner went on for a surprsingly long amount of time, the servants seemed to keep bringing food until 19:30, and for the next 30min, tea of a high quality was served, along with cookies.
After that, when 20:00 hit, the groups broke : the children went to the parlor to play a game of pool, Krauss and Natsuhi stayed inside of the dining room, Rosa went back to her room, Rudolf and Kyrie went back to their own too, and Eva and Hideyoshi went outside, in the gazebo to drink some more tea, served by Shannon.
Genji and Kanon used their time to clean up the dining room.

At 21:00, Rudolf, Rosa and Eva went for the dining room for the reunion, Natsuhi left the room and went back to her own. Hideyoshi went to the parlor with the children, Kyrie did too. Genji entered last, an old briefcase in his hand.
The reunion lasted 30min, and the four came back with an even more worried look on their face than before. Rudolf came to get Kyrie in the parlor, whispered something to her quickly and they broke off from the parlor to their own room. Eva did somthing similar with Hideyoshi, said she needed to talk alone with him and they went inside of their own room. Krauss went back to his room as well to meet up with Natsuhi. Rosa came inside of the parlor searching for Maria, saying it was late and that she needed to sleep. Maria protested that she wasn't the least bit tired and that she wanted to stay with the other children, but Rosa forced her to come with her.
She cried the whole way to her room. The other children bore worried faces, and switched from a pool game to a game of cards, as to not make to much noise at this hour.
Then, when 23:25 came, the children went back to their own room, and fell asleep.
>> No. 11942 edit
SECOND DAY : 21st JULY


Everyone woke up around 7:00, Kanon and Shannon who had woke up an hour earlier found that Genji was missing. They searched the whole guesthouse but they didn't find him. Kanon remembered that Genji took the key to the storehouse in the middle of the night, saying he “Needed to check something”, and that Kanon and Shannon should sleep, that he'd take care of the preparations.
When Kanon checked the Servant room, the storehouse key had still not be returned to where it was supposed to be.
Kanon warned the adults and they helped him to search.
They found the Storehouse locked. Krauss went to pick up a chair inside of the mansion and used it to break the storehouse's shutter door.
When they finally broke in after 10 min of door-bashing, they found Genji. Dead.
His corpse was face down against the floor, crushed under an iron shelf. When they removed the shelf from over him, they found a bullet hole in his skull, along with marks of concussion visibly left by the shelf falling over him. His hands were bond with thin string to the shelf, and another string was hung around his neck, the other end of it was on the ground, seemingly cut. There was no marks of strangulation though. In his pocket they found the single key to the Storehouse and his own master key.
The single window of the Storehouse was closed and locked.
Kanon noted that the shelf had been moved to where it was supposed to be, it had been moved in front of the window. He also noted that objects were missing : A wielding torch, an axe, the single fire extinguisher of the guesthouse and an hacksaw.
Not desirous to stick around with a corpse much longer, they put a sheet over his body, and Kanon took the master key and the storehouse key, even if the latter had no utility anymore.

Everyone was gathered and informed of the situation. Fear and anxiety were on everybody's faces. The adults were in deep thought, visibly worried about something else.
“When exactly are we supposed to be leaving ?” had asked Battler.
The adult's faces darkened as they heard him.
“Captain Kuwabata was supposed to come take us in two days.” answered Kanon, meekly.
“We need to contact the mainland. We can't stay here when there's a killer on the loose !”
“We cannot.” Krauss had spoken with a grave expression.
“Doesn't this place have these light signals things ? There must be a way to contact someone !”
“It is not about whether we have the means to do so. We cannot leave before then. We mustn't”
The other adults bore the same grave face as Krauss did.They were nodding anxiously. It seemed as if an unspoken agreement had been made.
“.. What are you saying ? A murder just happened ! We can't si-” Rudolf cut him short “Battler. Stop. We can't. That's all...”
“But...” Rudolf shook his head.

The clock rang 8:00 No one was sure of what to do. The adults all went in their respectives rooms, Rosa forced Maria to come with her once again. The three children stayed in the parlor. Kanon and Shannon, unsure of what they should do without Genji who directed the sojourn, stayed put in the parlor as well.
One, two hour passed and the whole building might as well have been unhabited.
Natsuhi joined the parlor group too around 9:15, “My husband asked to be left alone. He is not feeling well.” Her forehead was ridden with wrinkles, she was visibly under a lot of stress.
Around 10:20, Kanon decided to check up on everyone and see if they wanted anything. Natsuhi, George and Jessica all asked for tea. Shannon went to the kitchen to prepare some.
Kanon first checked up on the west wing of the guesthouse, Krauss simply said he wanted nothing, only to be left alone. Rudolf had started sleeping when Kanon entered, so Kyrie left him rest and went to the parlor.
Then came the east corridor. Eva and Hideyoshi both requested coffee, Rosa wanted nothing, and Maria eagerly begged for cake, unaffected by the current events.
Kanon then went on to the kitchen to bring what everyone asked. At the same moment, Shannon returned to the parlor with tea.
At 10:45, Kanon had served everyone with what they needed, so he moved to the kitchen and started to prepare the meal, Shannon went along with him.
Around 11:20, Rosa got out of her room and entered the parlor. Maria followed her.
At 11:30, Kanon anounced that the meal would soon be ready, and that everyone should start gathering in the dining room. Natsuhi and Kyrie went to notify their husbands, George went to get his parents.
Natsuhi found the door to the 1st Room locked, that much wasn't surprising. However Krauss didn't respond when she called for him to open it. Worried, she used her own key to open the door.
A scream echoed through the guesthouse. The whole guesthouse came rushing in.
Ushiromiya Krauss laid dead inside of his room. He was sitting in an awkward pose on the ground, a huge gap in his head. The wound corresponded to the shape of the stolen axe. Inside of his pocket was found the key engraved with the number one in roman letters. The windows were both closed and locked from the inside.
Beside him was a letter, or rather, two parts of a letter : Only the beginning and the end of the letter was there, the middle part had been completely torn.

On the top part was written “Dear Krauss, my son, may you be worthy of the witch's gold. May the witch bring you luck to solve this riddle”
The other part contained only a signature, Kinzo's.
Natsuhi took the key, the corpse was moved to the storehouse, and the place cleaned up by Kanon and Shannon.

Fear. Fear was on everyone's face and thoughts, except for Maria. The damned question hovering over everyone's head. “Who is next ?”
Everyone gathered inside of the dining room and the meal was served.
They were all looking down, anxious to look at another's face. Afraid to find the killer there, or the next victim. The only sounds that could be heard were Natsuhi's sobs, and Maria's humming of a cheery song. Rosa would have usually told her to knock it off, but she was livid and too worried to consider it.
The rest of the day seemed to pass in slow motion. But nothing happened. Dinner came, then at 22:00, everyone went to sleep.

Last edited at 13/06/10(Mon)07:07:48
>> No. 11943 edit
THIRD DAY : 22nd JUNE

By habit, Kanon and Shannon woke up around 6:00 in the morning. Only one day until the boat would arrive and they could leave. Shannon went to the kitchen to prepare breakfast and opened it with her key, while Kanon went to check if everything was alright. As she opened the kitchen door, she let out a huge scream, which echoed once again through the mansion. A scenery of hell was before her eyes. Half of the kitchen was burnt, and in the middle of it laid another corpse, burnt to a crisp. It seemed almost unidentifiable, but the bits of half-burnt clothes gave it away : This was the corpse of Eva Ushiromiya. Next to her was the fire extinguisher, the one that had been stolen previously, and her own old key in her pocket.
She also had the same two bits of a letter than Krauss, only it was her name on the top half instead of Krauss's.
Kanon ran full-force as soon as he hear the scream. He checked the window and the backdoor. The backdoor was closed and locked, and the window was simply closed. He then checked the fire extinguisher : It was completely full.
Having heard the scream, the others began to rise from their slumbers. Jessica and Natsuhi were the first to arrive. Rosa and Maria soon followed after them.
Natsuhi came up to Kanon, visibly nervous.

“Were the doors locked when you came in ?”
“Yes Madam.”
“So that's it. You were the ones who did it !” she shouted angrily.
She pulled out a knife and threatened them with barely-contained anger.
“You murderers ! You were the only ones who had the keys to the kitchen. No one else than you could have done this !
...In fact it was obvious from the start... it's obvious it would be the servants who would be the murderers ! Give my husband back ! We sheltered you, gave you a job and this is how you thank the Ushiromiya family ? You do not deserve to live. You do... not... After what you did !”
She was shaking heavily, and could not hold her knife straight. Kanon stayed silent, biting his lips. He had nothing to retort, the facts were against them. Shannon was shaking too, and she tried to defend herself with weak conviction.
“We.. we.. we did not. We never left the servant room for the whole night !” She mumbled in her usually unassertive voice.
“Shut it !” Natsuhi was breaking down. Rosa intervened, taking Natsuhi's hands and lowering them.
“Stop.. stop it ! Natsuhi, stop it ! We can't do justice ourselves. I agree that they're likely the culprits, but we can't kill them.” She turned towards the servants.
“Give us the three master keys.” She ordered
They complied.
“Good. Now, we should be safe. All that's left to do is to find somewhere to lock you..” she stopped, looked at the group.
“...Where are the others ? Eva should have been sleeping in her room... Then what about Hideyoshi and George ? Why didn't the others wake up ? We need to find them !” she ran off to room 2 first, and urged the others to check up on the group in room 3.
She found the door to room 2 closed, and used a master key to open it. Inside she found George and Hideyoshi, sleeping soundly. She tried her best to wake them up, but they didn't move in the slightest. She filled a bucket with the water from the bathroom and splashed them with it.
With difficulty, they woke up, and were informed of the situation.
She joined the other group and opened them the door which was also closed. Only Kyrie and Battler were there, and in the same state as Hideyoshi and George were. They woke them up the same way.

They then searched for Rudolf. And found him, in room 1. The door was locked and the chain had been set, the windows also closed and locked. His corpse was face against the ground in the center of the room, a knife in his heart and a cut on his neck, his old key found in his pocket. On the bed was the lost axe, bloodied. The same bits of letter beside him.
Rosa and Natsuhi were confused . They hadn't left the servants for more than 1min, and they weren't the ones holding the master keys, Natsuhi was holding the only other key to her room. It seemed impossible. The place was cleaned up once again, and the corpse moved in the storehouse, Kyrie took upon the key, and Eva's key was given to Hideyoshi.

As the tears of Kyrie, Battler, Hideyoshi and George filled the air, they ate the meager breakfast Kanon and Shannon had prepared.
Natsuhi and Rosa had stopped watching over them since Rudolf's corpse had been discovered. Natsuhi had hidden her knife and no one brought up the incident again. It seemed wholly pointless now.
Rosa however, didn't feel this way. She was riddled with fear, the pattern was clear, “I'm next” she thought. She stood up, taking Maria by the hand.
“I won't let anyone here kill me you hear ? Never !” she was sweating heavily. She ran off to her room along with Maria, locked herself and moved furniture in front of the windows. She was holding the three master keys, her own old key and Maria had hers. She was safe, or so she thought.

The rest of the group didn't react. They understood well the situation, and nothing they could do would change it. It was 9:00. They had finished eating breakfast, so they gathered in the parlor.
The children, wanting to get some peace of mind and escape the horror that had happened, started a pool game. However, as Battler crouched to get the balls, he saw that a letter had been put in the space where the balls fell down. He opened it and read it aloud for everyone. It said simply the following :

“Be wary of your neighbour. As you think yourself safe, he comes in by the backdoor to stab you from behind.
If sloth is a sin, carefreeness is a death flag.
Yours truly, Beatrice, the witch in gold.”

Havoc broke among the group of the parlor. Natsuhi said she was sure Shannon had put the letter there, that she saw her. George stood up for her. Things got heated, Hideyoshi tried to calm things down, but Natsuhi accused him too, and Kyrie joined in the chaos. Soon enough, it ended up as a shouting match, almost everyone pointing fingers at each other. Finally, Natsuhi broke off to her own room and so did Hideyoshi. George and Shannon left for the servant room, since they didn't have the key anymore, George rammed the door to get in. Only Jessica, Battler and Kanon who had stayed silent while things went down stayed in the parlor.

Two hour passed. Mumbled crying could be heard in the corridor. Hideyoshi, Natsuhi, Kyrie and the parlor group came out to check what was the cause of the commotion : it was Maria, all alone.
“Uuu-Uuu. Mama is gone... uUuuu.. She said I needed to wait in the room, that she'd be back soon. UuUUU. Mama... you liar..”
Indeed, she wasn't in her room. They then checked room 1 and found nothing, they went looking for Shannon and George, they were alright and had heard nothing. Finally they tried to open the dining room. It was closed. Natsuhi tried to open it with Krauss's old key, but the lock wouldn't budge.
“What now... I think this lock is broken.”
Hideyoshi and Battler rammed the door to get in. Rosa was sitting on a chair on the windows row, a huge slash on her neck and blood dripping all over. The windows were closed and locked, the other door was also closed and locked.
Her old key was, as expected, in her pocket. This time, Natsuhi took it.
The same two half of a letter were on the table, and beside it there was another letter. It indicated some sort of manoeuver to execute on one of the side-tables of the corridor.
They got out of the room and Hideyoshi tried to execute what was described on the letter, and to the group's surprise, an opening appeared in the eastern wall of the main corridor.

It led downstairs, to some sort of basement. The basement was rather large but empty. It only contained a stone table in the middle, some torches on the walls, a safe on the farthest wall from the entrance, and the same painting of Beatrice that was in the Rokkenjima mansion. The painting seemed to have been hiding the safe, but it was now detached from the wall and put aside.
The safe was open. It had four keyholes, each one with a roman number written on it. It went from 1 to 4. Hideyoshi tried to insert Eva's key in the keyhole marked with II, and it did fit.

Inside the safe, they found the stolen wielding torch, the stolen hacksaw, a knife, a handgun, a bloodied raincoat and a key. The key looked like the others old keys, only it had no number engraved on it. Kanon recognized it as the key Genji had for a suitcase he had brought on the island.
On the table in the center of the basement, they found another letter.

Last edited at 13/06/10(Mon)07:17:58
>> No. 11945 edit
File 137071514764.png - (431.03KB , 3649x2000 , start map.png )
11945
Map of the guesthouse. This is the layout and where people are supposed to sleep.
>> No. 11946 edit
“ Time. Time is a harsh friend. It never stops and keeps running. Before you know it, the world around you has changed beyond recognition. So do the people. Look away for a second, and they're like a stranger. And so we find ourselves lost and beaten by the endless race of time.
I wonder if we could say that a man was the same person he was years ago. How could we know if the mind of a man stays the same after all these years ? Through my 1000 years of living I have rarely met the case of someone effectively changing so much he couldn't be considered the same. What exactly does it take for a man to change ? Love, of course. Love is what I would have answered. But now I feel love as misplaced greed. An uncontrollable, selfish yet marvelous greed that consumes the soul and dulls the mind.
Do we love the person or the image we created of it ? Romantics would say that love is an unconditional adoration for all aspects of a person, and if we dislike aspects of it, this dislike is a sort of love in itself. However, I do not believe we could ever truly know someone and therefore, expressively love a person. We love what we see in ourselves, what we lack, what we want, what fascinates us in the other. But the person itself is an afterthought.
I am not trying to say that love does not exist, or that it's a thing we should stray from. Love is just less magic than what it appears to be. Yes, magic.

As I thought that, I wondered what would that mean for me. If love is not what it appears to be, to me who had always cherished love. Then, what would mean hopes, dreams, kindness if not a repercussion of our own desires ? As the others stray away from my understanding, so does my world. I find myself all alone in my mind. Is there a reason to be kind ? One to dream and one to hope ?
I used to think I could believe in others, support their dreams and that their happiness would bring me my own. But as I cannot understand them, I feel as if I made a heavy misjudgment. I have placed in others my own selfish hopes, all while I never understood who, what they were, and I always only based my understanding on my personal feelings. Of course, as I cannot, they find themselves unable to do so as well.
As I came to this conclusion, I wondered if there was a meaning to it all. Maybe, as I can only be sure of myself, then is isolation of the mind and a self-centered life the solution. It is a childish thought, I'll admit that much, but it seems my fickle mind has not found another solution.

It is why I came here and did what I did.
I do not think the Goldsmith was the same when he died as he was when I knew him. In fact, he probably was never what I thought of him. This gold I gave him to fulfill his dreams of revenge against the world, I wonder if it helped him ? But it doesn't matter now, and it would have never mattered anyway, since only he could have truly benefited from it.
The hopes and dreams of strangers couldn't matter less to me now. This heritage ceremony was a mistake from the get-go from Kinzo's part. The most disappointed would be Kinzo though, as his four children found themselves unable to solve the simple riddle he had presented them.
As such, I do not feel remorseful in the slightest. I simply took back what was mine from unworthy hands.”


“I hope you enjoyed your stay on the Island of Theseus.
The witch in gold, Beatrice.”
>> No. 11947 edit
File 137141382116.png - (178.97KB , 466x531 , Chara.png )
11947
Now, about the hint system I previously talked about, it is simple :
Every 7 red truths I make to counter blue truth, you will be allowed to ask a single question to one of the 9 survivors. You are allowed to ask any question of your choice.
Also, since anyone is allowed to participate, if you haven't got any idea of what to ask, please refrain from doing so.


First Paradox :

The marionette butler cut off of his strings inside the closed Storehouse after it had outlasted its utility.
What did he need to check ?

Second Paradox :

The proud First Child dead in his own room.
For such a proud man, his murder remains simple... Or is it ?

Third Paradox :

The sly Second Child burnt in the kitchen.
Why didn't she reach for the fire extinguisher ?

Fourth Paradox :

The wholesome Third Child stabbed with two weapons in the First room.
How did he get in there ?

Fifth Paradox :

The paranoid Fourth Child deceased for her last supper.
What happened with the lock ?




And a much needed red truth (Doesn't count for the hints)
Kanon and Shannon are not the same person


So, detectives, what is the truth ?

Last edited at 13/06/16(Sun)13:17:01
>> No. 11950 edit
File 130854339985.png - (65.08KB , 347x480 , ozaki_defa1.png )
11950
>>11942
I guess I'll try one or two blues and then let any new members give it a shot.

Genji was being tortured for information probably about the meting he had with the adults. After he wouldn't comply, or even if he did he was killed and then the room was set up. They did this by locking the window, pushing the shelve in front of it, then they closed the door and locked it with the storage key and finally using string to slide the key back into the room from under the door.

Last edited at 13/06/08(Sat)12:14
>> No. 11951 edit
File 136337637888.png - (253.30KB , 384x480 , leo_5a.png )
11951
>>11950
The string wasn't used to slide the key under the door
>> No. 11952 edit
File 13083791693.png - (65.07KB , 347x480 , ozaki_defa2.png )
11952
>>11951
Alright then I'll just follow up with that last theory for now.

The key may not have been slid into the room via door but that doesn't deny it was slid in through any other means.

ie window, hole that was made and or fixed afterwards, etc.

Last edited at 13/06/08(Sat)12:19
>> No. 11953 edit
File 136338809565.png - (255.03KB , 383x480 , leo_2a.png )
11953
>>11952
Nice try.
The key wasn't slid into the room

Last edited at 13/06/08(Sat)12:20
>> No. 11955 edit
File 137079675944.png - (79.01KB , 480x280 , souda (4).png )
11955
I think I've got the start of the theory here, it's farfetched, but it's all I've got.
The string around Genji's neck was tied to the window in such a way that when the shelf fell, the window would be pulled shut and locked, then the string would slip off. This theory assumes that a key is not needed to lock the windows.
>> No. 11956 edit
File 137079759610.png - (253.25KB , 384x480 , leo_11a.png )
11956
>>11955
Not bad. However,the shelf fell after the window had been shut and locked.
You are right about the window, it does not require any key to be locked.

Last edited at 13/06/09(Sun)10:08
>> No. 11957 edit
File 137079913365.png - (78.96KB , 480x280 , souda (12).png )
11957
Hrmm... I don't want to give up on this entirely, time for a new angle.

The last time the window was closed, it was not closed directly by a human hand, e.g. a mechanism similar to the one previously described was used.

My logic here is, if the window was open at some point, it's possible that the murderer killed Genji from outside the storehouse. If not, we've got some lovely key-juggling to solve.

Last edited at 13/06/09(Sun)10:45
>> No. 11958 edit
File 13707999198.png - (250.67KB , 383x480 , leo_9.png )
11958
>>11957
Tchh. I'll concede that much.
The window was not closed and locked by a human hand, but by a mechanism

(Edited, had forgot some things to add. Sorry about that)
However, this paradox is not solved yet.

Last edited at 13/06/09(Sun)10:55
>> No. 11959 edit
File 137080121252.png - (102.06KB , 480x280 , souda (3).png )
11959
Sweet! Okay, how about this?
The string around Genji's neck was tied at the other end to the window, and along its length somewhere to a weight. The killer shoots Genji from outside, severing the string, and causing the now free weight to pull the window shut. Shortly after closing, Genji's dead weight causes the shelf to topple over, completing the scene.
>> No. 11960 edit
File 136336698458.png - (253.04KB , 384x480 , leo_7.png )
11960
>>11959
Well, it is not quite correct, but you got the important part down, so I won't nitpick.
That is mostly correct. There was no weight however, Genji's head acted as the weight, and the string was not broken by a gunshot, but by the shelf falling over.

Now, what about the key ?
>> No. 11961 edit
File 137080269437.png - (86.66KB , 480x280 , souda (2).png )
11961
No need to even worry about it!
The culprit set up the strings, then locked the storehouse from the inside, using the key. After placing the key on Genji, they then simply climbed out of the window!
>> No. 11962 edit
File 137080352021.png - (278.40KB , 503x480 , leo_v4.png )
11962
>>11961
That would be way too simple now. Just look at the map.
The door of the storehouse cannot be locked from the inside, be it with a key or without.

Last edited at 13/06/09(Sun)11:49
>> No. 11963 edit
File 137080453825.png - (84.24KB , 480x280 , souda (16).png )
11963
... Looks like I can't afford to get cocky. I'll fire off one more blue, then I'll stop so Ozaki or someone can have some input on what question we want to ask.


Culprit A handed the key to Culprit B, who left the storehouse and locked the door. Culprit B then passed the key back to Culprit A through the window, who placed in on Genji, before escaping through the window.
>> No. 11964 edit
File 137080528227.png - (278.43KB , 503x480 , leo_v13.png )
11964
>>11962
The culprit never handed the key to someone else. Nor was it handed to him.
>> No. 11965 edit
File 137080663934.png - (80.46KB , 480x280 , souda (18).png )
11965
Right, time for the hint. I'm inclined to either ask Kannon if he noticed anyone's movements not mentioned in the text, or to ask Shannon if she did actually place that letter on the third day.

Either way, it's only fair that someone else gets a chance to pose their own, so I'm gonna take a break for now.
>> No. 12004 edit
File 131313574850.png - (10.42KB , 200x200 )
12004
hi
>> No. 12031 edit
File 13083791693.png - (65.07KB , 347x480 , ozaki_defa2.png )
12031
>>11964
>>11965
I remember when people were not as courteous in /gameboard/. Although I guess there are both pros and cons to that.
I'll leave the hint for now.

It seems that the window was open during the solution?
Well they just locked the door before killing Genji and then put the key into his pocket via the window.
You could even incorporate even more strings to weave the key through the pocket.

Otherwise it is the simple key placed into the room after the discovery.
>> No. 12033 edit
File 136338809565.png - (255.03KB , 383x480 , leo_2a.png )
12033
>>12031
So you prefer saving it uh ? Fine.

The key couldn't have returned in his pocket simply by throwing it from the window, and the string was not used that way.

The key was already in Genji's pocket before the group entered and discovered his body.


Last edited at 13/06/10(Mon)00:03:32
>> No. 12034 edit
File 137084660572.png - (149.23KB , 333x680 , bat3-4.png )
12034
The window was either always unlocked before the murder or Genji unlocked it himself. Therefore, he locked the door from the outside on the way out, and Genji entered through the window with his key still inside the pocket. Thus, he died from the previously mentioned string scenario without the culprit ever touching any key.
>> No. 12035 edit
File 136338618633.png - (253.29KB , 384x480 , leo_5.png )
12035
>>12034
This is sorta correct.
The window was unlocked from the start.
Genji did enter from the window with the key still inside of his pocket.


However, Genji did not lock the door.
And the culprit never entered the room via the window.

Last edited at 13/06/11(Tue)08:56:32
>> No. 12036 edit
File 136959487737.png - (158.54KB , 333x680 , bat4-1.png )
12036
The storehouse door was locked before Genji ever grabbed the key from the servant's room, thus he needed not to hand the key to anyone.

Genji moved the shelf and set himself up with the strings, whereas the culprit stayed outside with the gun.


Last edited at 13/06/10(Mon)00:09:57
>> No. 12037 edit
File 13633804559.png - (253.17KB , 384x480 , leo_6a.png )
12037
>>12036
Erf.. Correct. The storehouse was locked from the start, Genji entered by the window and set everything up, then the culprit shot him.

You have technically solved the closed room of the First Paradox. However, there still remains mystery in this case.

What did Genji needed to check ? And how do you explain his behavior ?

Last edited at 13/06/10(Mon)07:10:24
>> No. 12038 edit
File 137088399981.png - (81.74KB , 480x280 , souda (10).png )
12038
Sounds like as good a time as any to use up these hint coins! I guess we could ask a servant about what was inside there... Maybe something to do with why the adults couldn't communicate with the outside world?
>> No. 12043 edit
File 136337590621.png - (318.08KB , 603x480 , leo_b1.png )
12043
>>12038
Well, go ahead. Since now you can ask two questions, you might as well try something.

Last edited at 13/06/12(Wed)12:20:27
>> No. 12048 edit
What about the questions? Will the survivors be honest unless culprit/accomplice?
>> No. 12049 edit
File 136335075057.png - (252.97KB , 384x480 , leo_4.png )
12049
>>12048
No, of course. The characters will answer the questions as if it were reality. If necessary for them they'll lie.
Basically they'd answer you like they would an inspector.

Last edited at 13/06/13(Thu)03:03:48
>> No. 12050 edit
silly kinjo game, getting all of the gameboard players
>> No. 12051 edit
File 137139722223.gif - (106.69KB , 500x357 , Serial Experiments at his computer.gif )
12051
>>12050
>> No. 12052 edit
Very well, let's use one of these hints then.

I'll summon Hideyoshi and make him the next question:

"Dude what the heck happened during that meeting? What did Eva tell you that made you decide it was a good idea to stay on the island with a murderer out?"

>> No. 12054 edit
File 131320214395.png - (83.45KB , 469x477 , hid_komarua1.png )
12054
>>12052
Hideyoshi appears before you. He looks quite shocked to hear how you're addressing him, but he complies nonetheless and answers.

"...It was foolish. Simple greed pushed us to make that darn mistake ! And a terrible one it was... Eva...

Eva told me when she came back from the reunion.
Genji had given to the four children a paper containing some kind of riddle. The riddle indicated the location of the gold, and whoever would find it first would become the new family head.
There was a condition however : the gold had to be found during the planned duration of the stay on the island. If the gold hadn't be found by the time the boat arrived, then the entirety of the gold would be given to the Fukuin House's children.
Also, only the four children had been given a riddle that night, Eva told me Kinzo had said it was "A simple helping hand for my beloved children. Since they are handicapped by their thin grey matter, I am simply giving them a hint of hope." A riddle was then supposed to be made public to everyone on the island by the next evening by Genji."
>> No. 12055 edit
File 137145845566.png - (642.03KB , 968x1041 , kirsten~default 1.png )
12055
>>12037
Seems like Genji needed to check the objects that have been missing. This and also his way of entering the storehouse were a parts of the "preparations" if not the actual "preparations".
>>12054
So that's how it is. And Kyrie is seem to know about it too from Rudolph, huh. No, I'm not gonna ask for an another hint.
>> No. 12059 edit
File 136338618633.png - (253.29KB , 384x480 , leo_5.png )
12059
>>12055
Genji wasn't aware that objects were missing when he took the key.
On the schedule, no preparations were to be made before 3:00 AM, yet Genji took the key around 0:30 AM.


Last edited at 13/06/18(Tue)13:51:41
>> No. 12061 edit
File 137162625516.png - (640.62KB , 968x1041 , kirsten~disturbed.png )
12061
>>12059
And he didn't expect such a thing too? I meant that Genji needed to check if the objects are already missing or not.
And now I also wonder if Genji had found out that the objects are not in the storehouse after he took the key but before he entered the storehouse.
>> No. 12062 edit
File 137166678668.jpg - (48.19KB , 250x350 , 1603.jpg )
12062
>>12037
So can you confirm in red that Genji did indeed want to check something?

On another note, he was ordered to set his own death by someone.
That could explain his behavior.
>> No. 12063 edit
File 136338809565.png - (255.03KB , 383x480 , leo_2a.png )
12063
>>12061
Genji never considered the possibility of objects being missing in the storehouse.

>>12062
I refuse to. However I'll confirm that He did say so to Kanon.

Genji was not aware he was going to die.
>> No. 12064 edit
File 137170301338.png - (640.70KB , 968x1041 , kirsten~default 1.png )
12064
>>12063
Confirm that Genji wasn't going use the key to open the storehouse at least when he took it, then.
And anyway, Genji was in hurry while entering the storehouse so he didn't found the key in his pocket (although the key was in it) and thus entered via window.
>> No. 12065 edit
File 137170806468.png - (151.91KB , 326x667 , bat29.png )
12065
For his behavior on the part of his own death, he was forced by his culprit through violence or other means, and complied thinking he wouldn't die because of it like 0zaki said.

Perhaps taking that one step further, he didn't check for the items out of his own will even if he told Kanon that was the case, but to find out the possibility if there are indeed weapons in the first place for the culprit to use henceforth, or he was forced to bring the weaponry to them because he had previous knowledge of their location.

Last edited at 13/06/19(Wed)23:05:39
>> No. 12066 edit
Audio 03_Kenka_0.mp3 - (5.65MB , 03 Kenka.mp3 )
12066
>>12064
Why would I ? Since Genji believed he would use the key to enter the storehouse when he took it.

Genji's getting old, sure, but be it an hurry or not, he would have still found the key if it were in his pocket.

>>12065
Genji would never give in to physical threat.
Genji did not have any knowledge about weaponry apart from tools like the axe or knives that could be used as murder weapons, and that much almost everyone knew or could have guessed.


Last edited at 13/06/20(Thu)02:22:06
>> No. 12067 edit
File 13717362403.png - (151.99KB , 562x543 , blind~.png )
12067
>>12066
The next question then is when Genji planned to use the key. Seems like Genji wasn't planning to go in the storehouse in the first place.
Also, if he wasn't forced through a violence, then he was forced to do the things that led him to death by the order.
>> No. 12069 edit
File 137174978390.png - (152.30KB , 326x667 , bat28.png )
12069
Not a physical threat? Fine, there are only so many reasons why someone would play along with something like this. People do things for greed, and his behavior only has to match instructions. Genji was promised a reward or compensation for following directions, and never at one point did he think he would die in the process. Because Genji.

That leaves the question of what he would want to check... But, you never confirmed if he really wanted to check something. I still think the culprit put him up to retrieving those items found at the crime scene of the rest of the murders, and was instructed to go through the window instead of the door for the sake of a mystery that the culprit is planning unbeknownst to Genji.
>> No. 12070 edit
File 136338326843.png - (318.60KB , 603x480 , leo_b5a.png )
12070
>>12069
So you're saying that he wasn't planning to go to the storehouse, yet he took the key and entered by the window ? Since this raises more question than it solves anything, I won't bother making a red to counter that one.

>>12069
Genji never retrieved any of the objects found later on the crime scenes

As you should have already guessed, the safe contained the infamous ten tons of gold of Kinzo, Genji was aware of this, knew how to access the secret basement and how to open the safe. Had he wanted money, he could have very well stole it.
Explain to me how he could have possibly been bribed then~

>he was forced to do the things that led him to death by the order.
>and was instructed to go through the window instead of the door for the sake of a mystery that the culprit is planning unbeknownst to Genji.

Hmm... I will concede that Genji was instructed to do so. However, he would have never obeyed such an order under normal conditions.
Yet he was never physically threatened, and I won't even talk about bribing. What caused him to comply then ?
I admit, this is mainly me nitpicking, but I consider that if you solved the closed room, the murder's central mystery has yet to be solved, and I don't intend of giving it to you easily.

Well, if you don't find it within the next few tries, I'd recommend you save it for later and move on, there is so much murders left to solve, after all~

Last edited at 13/06/20(Thu)12:51:48
>> No. 12071 edit
File 137176241055.png - (157.12KB , 333x680 , bat4-3.png )
12071
Okay, I'm gonna move on to the next closed room, but I just have one more blue for Genji and/or the overall whydunnit (though I'm still not sure what he needed to check, if he was at all anyway, just to explain his behavior).

I think he is a man of honor if he never thought of stealing the gold for himself, and has respectfully stood by the Ushiromiya family and Kinzo in whatever they decide is best for the inheritance. If it’s not his life, nor his wealth he’s worried about, then it’s his honor and status.

Therefore, the culprit solved the "riddle" and wanted to keep the findings for themselves. Throwing off the rest of the preparation plans and normal conditions, the culprit, now the new heir, told Genji to follow their plan with their power of newly found status, and perhaps added the reward of gold on top of following orders that he otherwise would of felt guilty for stealing if he didn’t obey Kinzo’s will. Now that his will is complete, he no longer needs that to hold him back for taking bribes and following instructions.
>> No. 12072 edit
File 137176503090.png - (278.41KB , 503x480 , leo_v7.png )
12072
>>12071
Heh, that's a good theory, well done. Ain't the truth though.
No "heir authority" was used to make Genji comply.
You are right about one thing though, Genji is a man of honor

Last edited at 13/06/20(Thu)14:52:03
>> No. 12074 edit
File 137179120475.png - (280.16KB , 508x402 , keyani_fall1.png )
12074
>>12072
You said it like if it was also Kinzo's will, or rather it was a part of the will that was hidden in the secret basement for the one who would find the gold, or even it was a fake will made by the culprit for Genji's deceiving.
>> No. 12075 edit
File 136338055689.png - (253.39KB , 384x480 , leo_7a.png )
12075
>>12074
The only will Genji ever followed was Kinzo's, him being tied up and his death were not part of it.

Last edited at 13/06/21(Fri)00:29:56
>> No. 12076 edit
File 13717965454.png - (483.03KB , 761x520 , keyani_fall3.png )
12076
It was some compromising materials that could undermine Genji's status huh?
>> No. 12077 edit
File 136337590621.png - (318.08KB , 603x480 , leo_b1.png )
12077
>>12076
No such material exists. He is a man of honor through and through after all.
>> No. 12078 edit
File 137180353981.png - (153.34KB , 326x666 , bat10.png )
12078
>>12072
Just before I head to the next one, Heir authority=Family Head authority, right?

Anyway, I'll just get the normal stuff out of the way.
Krauss was murdered after the closed room was broken, particularly after Natsuhi opened the door.

Just to kill two birds with one stone since we haven't used it much, I'll ask Natsuhi, Would you be ever so kind as to shed light on the discussions you had with your husband prior to his death? Perhaps more specifically something that has to do with details of the reunion and its riddle, or more importantly the cause for Krauss's illness and eventual death?

Last edited at 13/06/21(Fri)11:06:48
>> No. 12079 edit
File 136335075057.png - (252.97KB , 384x480 , leo_4.png )
12079
>>12078
Yes, "heir" or "family head" autority are the same thing.

Krauss was not killed after the closed room had been broken.

Last edited at 13/06/22(Sat)03:01:00
>> No. 12080 edit
File 13718977794.png - (130.40KB , 600x600 , Ring.png )
12080
>>12079
So there is also a "non-heir" authority. But it seems to be a "normal condition"... right?

Please confirm that Kanon entered the room when asking Krauss if he wanted something.
>> No. 12081 edit
File 13719072975.png - (119.97KB , 441x480 , nat_tukarea1.png )
12081
>>12078
Natsuhi appears before you. She is fidgeting and looks extremely nervous, still grieving as her cheeks are completely red, her left cheek especially being almost scarlet.

"Discussions with my husband ?... What happened...
The riddle... I don't really know. He came back from the reunion that night and didn't told me much, only that he needed to solve something before we leave or we would be...
So it was a riddle ? I see...
I tried to help him, but he refused and stayed up the whole night thinking about it. That must have been why he felt so ill the following day. That and Genji's... departure seemed to trouble him greatly, and his nerves where on the edge.

When we came back to our room he seemed more flustered than ever, and he was constantly holding his head, therefore I gave him some of my headache medicine and told him to rest, or at least to let me help a little, but he got angry and..."

She stops short, holding her left cheek with her hand. She bites her lip nervously and her downcast look darkens.

"...I...decided it was best to leave him alone then...
I don't know anything else..."

She is now more fidgeting that she was before, her lips trembling slightly.

Last edited at 13/06/22(Sat)06:22:35
>> No. 12082 edit
File 137190781945.png - (314.68KB , 603x480 , leo_b11a.png )
12082
>>12080
...You lost me. I have no idea what you're trying to say.

At least I can still answer to the second part :
When Kanon went to see Krauss, he only knocked and left as Krauss started shouting to be left alone.

Last edited at 13/06/23(Sun)02:51:18
>> No. 12083 edit
File 137196808891.png - (26.87KB , 123x224 , I don\'t know what I expected.png )
12083
>>12081
Okay, maybe I'll press nappi on something later.

How about Krauss was murdered between 8:00 and 9:15 when there wasn't a closed room to begin with, where Natsuhi only had to lock the door behind her with her key. I mean, she had a knife, didn't she?
>> No. 12084 edit
File 13719814152.png - (318.79KB , 603x480 , leo_b12.png )
12084
>>12083
Yeah, sure, why not ?
Except... If Krauss is dead since 9h15 or before, then explain to me : who did Kanon talk to ?

Last edited at 13/06/23(Sun)02:57:39
>> No. 12085 edit
File 13669612765.png - (153.30KB , 326x667 , bat51.png )
12085
>>12084
Hmm... So if Kanon definitely heard Krauss yelling, I can only imagine that Krauss was not quite killed instantly by his culprit before the 9:15 mark, and instead was yelling in pain as Kanon could only assume he was trying to be left alone.
>> No. 12086 edit
File 137201470624.png - (655.96KB , 1109x1080 , kirsten~pawnch.png )
12086
I wonder if the riddle's content is one of the main mysteries.

Ok I'll try to go in another way then.
The culprit broke the closed room in between of the 10:45 and 11:30.
Krauss opened the door at least once — for the culprit.
Krauss understood that he would be killed. Because of the misunderstanding the riddle etc. etc.

And suddenly, Genji entered the storehouse via window on a bet.
>> No. 12087 edit
File 136338809565.png - (255.03KB , 383x480 , leo_2a.png )
12087
>>12085
Heh, I'm liking your way of thinking more and more Camphor.
Unfortunately for you though, Kanon did not mistake what he heard, what Krauss said was perfectly intelligible.

>>12086
The riddle's content is unrelated to the actual mystery. Its purpose was to indicate how to access the secret basement, and that is now already known.

Well concerning your blues, they're not denying the witch's illusion, the mystery. If you want me to answer, please form a theory that'd explain how things got this way by human hands~

Not the last one though. Genji did not go to the storehouse on a bet.
>> No. 12088 edit
File 135360013472.png - (98.71KB , 415x480 , avbb3.png )
12088
*lurk* *lurk*

Well, might as well try my hand in this (considering that my original idea for Krauss' locked room was shot down simply because I misread the narration, anyway.)

Let me try going back to the First Paradox for a moment:
Genji, when setting up his entire part of the murder (the paradox) was convinced that he would not die. In fact, he was counting on being rescued. Unfortunately, the culprit killed him, instead (possibly on accident, though? Maybe the culprit fired the gun in hopes of really saving him, but missed horribly or something like that.)

Second Paradox
The numbered keys can actually unlock bedroom doors aside from the bedrooms those numbers were assigned to. (Considering the narration stated that they would open 'most doors' and specifically proceeded to mention the exceptions, soooo)
If not, I do have an idea for the fourth paradox, but I'll get to that later.
The alternative for this one... Hm...
I was going to suggest that Kanon or the culprit could (oh god, what do you call it in english) 'talk from their belly?' Erm... Well, produce voices without their lips actually moving, or something like that. Though that kind of fell into water since the red specifically mentions 'Krauss'.

Admittedly, though, this isn't really a locked room, as it seems. I mean, there must exist more than one key to the bedroom, seeing as how Natsuhi maanged to unlock the door with the key mentioned in the narration. So... Rudolf could've killed him. After Kanon left, he just went in the room and killed ol' Krauss. Either he used this 'spare key' to get in, kill him and get out just in time for tea OR Krauss let him in, he killed him, and Kyrie as his accomplice vouched that she went to get him.

Third Paradox
fake death, another body, gg
Erm... Or, alternatively, She was simply killed somewhere else, brought there and burned, hence, no need for a fire extinguisher.
The killer obviously had the master key which he/she could've swiped from the servants during the course of the 'game' and then given back to during the night (or at some other time where they wouldn't have noticed). The alternative is simply an accomplice. Another alternative is that the servant's key found in Genji's possession at the time of his discovery simply wasn't the servant's key, but another key. (I believe you did confirm 'the key' as the storagehouse key, but I wonder about this one... do correct me if I'm wrong, though.)

Fourth Paradox
In this paradox, I find the actual description interesting in corespodance to the letter - your wording, to be more percise.
"A knife in his heart". It's possible that Rudolf is, in fact, still alive and that this is referring to it in a metaphorical sense. He's a betrayer, or something similar. It's also strange how you say 'a cut' on his head, but not 'his head was chopped clear off his torso, especially when you bring an axe into this?
Now, of course, this is a theory. The issue, on the other hand would be the locked room itself. ...But it's not impossible with the 'multiple keys' theory, I suppose - so that's what I'll roll with.

An alternative to this murder is that Rudolf didn't die instantly and locked/closed one of the possible means of escape himself.

Fifth Paradox
This one, I feel, I might actually be able to solve, funny enough.
After killing each of the victims, the culprit would take their respective numbered keys, go to the secret room, turn the respective numbered slot on the safe, and plant the key on the body later - either as a part of his construction on the locked room or during the discovery. With the possession of the last key, he took the gold and placed all the stuff. Now, in the narration, Hideyoshi is never stated to have actually turned the key - the safe was, in all actuality, already open! ...The alternative is that Eva is the culprit and worked in cooperation with Hideyoshi.

Hm. That wasn't too bad.

...I think.
>> No. 12089 edit
File 137202826486.png - (151.84KB , 326x666 , bat8.png )
12089
>>12087

So, Kanon heard a prerecorded voice of Krauss. I think they had recorders back in 1986... Can you confirm that Krauss was indeed alive when Kanon knocked on the door? Just a request.

Last edited at 13/06/23(Sun)16:07:52
>> No. 12090 edit
Audio Ishii Kouji - Karura's Flame ~karuraen~ - (1.57MB - 128 kbps - 48 kHz , 07_ Karura\'s Flame ~karuraen~edit.mp3 ) Length: 1:43
12090
>>12088
Ohoho... Long time no see DWaM, I was wondering where you had gone since last time, glad to see you back.
Now about those blues~

Well, that first blue is intriguing. It does not really solve the entire paradox but I'll answer it either way.
Genji's death was caused on purpose.

The numbered keys can only open their own room. No numbered key can open another bedroom than their own.

Heh, a lovely theory again. The term you're looking for is ventriloquism. No one on the island is able to do such a thing.

Well the keys that can open the room are all clear right ? : The numbered key, the two small keys given to Natsuhi and Jessica and the master keys. No more key exist that can open this door

The culprit never moved Eva's body after she died.

As for the keys, I think I had been clear with that, but I guess not : Two keys were found on Genji's body : The storehouse key and his own master key, that Kanon took.
As for the keys themselves, the three master keys were put on a table in the servant's room by Kanon and Shannon before they went to sleep that night, they found it at the same place next morning.
Feel free to explain this.

Another interesting blue. A very good one I might add, probably better than what I came up with. Anyway, Rudolf is very much dead.

Rudolf died within 20 seconds after he had been given the final blow, however he did not lock or close anything.

I'm a little lost by your 5th paradox, since you are not talking about Rosa's murder...
I'm, of course, not gonna confirm anything at this point.
Just a thing I thought was made clear : when the group entered the secret basement, the safe was already open. Hideyoshi did turn the key, however nothing happened.

>>12089
Nice try.
No recorders were brought on the island by anybody.

Since we've already hit that much red, I decided that the hint "points" will only stack up to 35. So get to using it !

Last edited at 13/06/24(Mon)00:46:50
>> No. 12091 edit
File 137206245774.png - (77.38KB , 219x317 , idk.png )
12091
>>12087

Okay, Krauss was slowly dying and told him to go away intelligibly.

Huh, for the first paradox...not life, wealth, status.... he is a man of honor. Chivalry? It must be that single element.

Genji complied because he was in love with the culprit! The normal conditions of his heart were out of whack as he was tempted to play along.

Anyway, how about I just ask Kanon then about the first paradox since I don't have a clue, would you have any idea what Genji would have checked or do you have any knowledge of the "preperations"?

Last edited at 13/06/24(Mon)01:34:04
>> No. 12092 edit
File 137080528227.png - (278.43KB , 503x480 , leo_v13.png )
12092
>>12091
Quite stubborn, aren't you ? Krauss was not dying when he told Kanon to go away.

...Hahaha ! Perfect, this is absolutely perfect ! What a thrill to see such a truth before me... I feel quite saddened to have to counter it.
Genji was not in love with anyone ! He stayed a bachelor until the end...
>> No. 12093 edit
File 130841902997.png - (89.42KB , 291x478 , kan_waraia3.png )
12093
>>12091
"The preparations ?" Kanon has a thoughtful look on his face.

"Well it seemed already weird when he said that to me that day.
The only thing that was planned was to make a lengthy breakfast, Genji had even planned to start cooking it at 3:00 AM, since it was quite a gorgeous feast. But I didn't know anything else was supposed to be done. At the very least none that concerned me.
I guessed it had something to do with the riddle, heritage and things Shannon and I were not aware of, so I left it at that.

I noticed that he looked particularly nervous however, he was sweating a little, but even that much is something that was very unusual for a man like Genji.
Also, after he told us to sleep and before he left, he added to be sure to lock the door and set the chain. And to only open if we were sure it was him, if something happened with the family members, unless it was an urgent matter, we needed to send them back to their room without opening.

As for the storehouse, I have no idea what he'd do there. There was nothing there that was supposed to be used for anything I knew. Again, maybe it was something to do with the riddle ?

That is all I know..." He bows courteously.

Last edited at 13/06/24(Mon)02:14:27
>> No. 12094 edit
File 135351726645.png - (96.67KB , 415x480 , avbb2.png )
12094
>>12090
First
Strange... You didn't actually deny what I was going at.
So let's try this:
The solution to the riddle is a location - the storehouse. Inside the storehouse is a suitcase that Genji brought to the island. That's what he was going to check. When trying to enter the storehouse, he found it to be impossible to open for some reason X (either culprit's sabotage or something similar). I can't really describe what was going through his head, but here's what I'm assuming:
Genji was fairly certain that he would not die, but that he would, in fact, be saved from his 'set-up'. The reasons for this are either instructions or from some kind of disappointment in someone. As a man of honor, he was hoping the culprit was one, as well.


Second
Weeeell...
If Natsuhi killed Krauss (kind of unlikely, but this is essentially a way to get a red at least), then the entire trick is possible for her. She killed him right after going 'to inform him' and then played the part of finding the door locked (which it very well could've been). This way, the red about Krauss not being killed after discovery isn't broken, considering that nothing was really 'discovered' by that time.
But just to make sure, there are no secret passages at work here? Aside from the one leading to the safe, of course. Considering that more than one murder took place in Room 1, it's an interesting explanation as to how the rooms were set-up.

Third
Hm... You still haven't explicity stated that she was dead at the time she was found. Or, at least, that that really was Eva's body. Fake death still works, to a point. She simply died later on for some reason.
If not, she didn't reach for the fire extinguisher because she was bound and gagged.
She didn't reach for the fire extinguisher because she thought that her killer (or someone else) would save her, instead.
The fire extinguisher wasn't originally there to begin with, anyway.
The servant's room wasn't locked at the time of the third murder.
Kanon or Shannon are simply the culprits OR one of them (if not both) is an accomplice that willingly gave the key to the culprit during the night.

Fourth
That wording still doesn't eliminate the possibility of Rudolf being the one to set the chain. The basic trick is the same for Paradox 2, whatever it is.

Fifth
I was actually under the safe was the fifth paradox. Hm, guess not. Still, I guess my explanation for it does work.
The door Natsuhi tried to open was never locked to begin with or was simply locked from the outside by the culprit.

The culprit's proooobably faking his death and has an accomplice among the survivors. And I'm pretty sure it's Eva, but we'll see, I guess.
>> No. 12095 edit
File 137170301338.png - (640.70KB , 968x1041 , kirsten~default 1.png )
12095
>>12087
U~n.
Rudolf killed Krauss. He pretended to be sleeping, but when no one was in the western part of the corridor, he went to Krauss (and seems like Krauss opened the door), killed him (most likely with the axe), closed and locked the door and hid somewhere in the room so when everyone gathered because of Natsuhi's scream, he just blended into the crowd.

And I would also like to ask Kyrie, in the same fashion as Hideyoshi and Natsuhi were asked. So, one would like to know about some of your talks with Rudolf during the stay on the island. What did he told you after the reunion? Was it something about the reunion? Did he said something strange later? Something like that, if you please.
>> No. 12096 edit
Audio Kajiura Yuki - a narrow escape - (4.45MB - 315 kbps - 44.1 kHz , 23 - a narrow escape.mp3 ) Length: 1:53
12096
>>12094
As I stated before, the riddle indicated only the secret passage. The storehouse door was perfectly functional.
As for the rest, hm.... Genji didn't think he'd be rescued by anyone in particular. He just didn't expect to be killed, and honor had nothing to do with that.

You should read my exchanges with Camphor just above you. Explain to me Kanon's "conversation" with Krauss with your theory.

The only ways to enter room 01 is by the door or the several windows.

No material were brought or existed on the island that could fake someone's death or create a fake corpse real enough that no one would notice it.

Eva was not bound nor gagged.
Eva did not expect anyone to save her.
The fire extinguisher was there to begin with.
The servant's room was locked at the time of the 3rd murder.
Nor Kanon nor Shannon gave any of their keys before Natsuhi took them the next day.
Kanon and Shannon never stepped inside the kitchen after their supposed hour of sleep until they woke up the next day.


As for the fifth paradox, none of your propositions explain why they had to ram the door to get in.

>>12095
When the corpse was discovered, no one was hiding in room 01

Last edited at 13/06/25(Tue)13:19:24
>> No. 12097 edit
File 137209761979.png - (22.01KB , 141x153 , uhh.png )
12097
>>12092

Until you repeat the words, "Krauss was dead when Kanon knocked on the door after 10:20 a.m." or "Krauss was alive when Kanon knocked on the door at 10:20 a.m." in red, I'm not stopping until I open the Krauss cat box, but until then I'm glad I eliminated one possibility.

However,
perhaps Kanon killed Krauss during that time, entering with the master key.
or
The Krauss who spoke to Kanon is not the same Krauss who was murdered before 9:15.

For the first paradox once again, Genji complied because the culprit physically threatened the other family members besides himself.
or
Genji had no way to liquidate the gold assets he was bribed with. Remember Umineko? Without a way for Genji to legally convert the gold into cash, the gold is not useful to him. With the previous theory of Kinzo's will becoming complete, he had no problem taking bribes! He was not swayed by the culprit's family head status, but their ability to convert the gold.

Not exactly honorable, but eh.
>> No. 12098 edit
File 133075461431.png - (93.25KB , 285x469 , kir_nayamua1.png )
12098
>>12095
This time, Kyrie appears. She looks deeply tired, her lips dry and her eyes red. Unlike Natsuhi however, she remains calm and composed.

"My talks with Rudolf ?... Well, after the reunion, he told me about the riddle, the heritage and the time limit that was imposed on us. When tried to solve it together while we were in our room, we didn't manage, since Battler came back to the room after, we decided it was better to try tomorrow and went to sleep.
Then, morning came and the rest, you should know..."
>> No. 12099 edit
File 137209810515.png - (49.55KB , 200x199 , cutebb.png )
12099
>>12096
Again, you aren't explicitly denying my points.

I'll leave the first one for now until I come to a better idea. My final blue for it would be that Genji was checking up on that suitcase he'd brought to the island.

Paradox 2
You kinda misunderstood me. I was suggesting that this took place after that conversation with Kanon took place - when Natsuhi said she was going to get Krauss for tea (or what was it?) During that time, she killed him, locked the door and pretended that it was the first time she'd arrived at the door and was 'amazed' it was locked. Nothing complicated.

3rd Paradox
Ah, sorry, when I meant 'fake death', I merely meant that she used another dead body to do it, just putting her clothes on it. If you insist that she's dead, then I'll claim that she did die, but at a later date - after the kitchen scene.

4th Paradox
A lock (not necessarily for this murder, of course, but the game in general) had the ability of being picked by the culprit (and, was in fact, picked).
My claim still stands - Rudolf set the chain himself.
Alternatively, the chain can be set from outside the room.
The room was simply locked from the outside.


5th Paradox
I still have options:
Assuming a chair was placed in front of the door, the door would have to be rammed down.
If the culprit was still somehow inside the room and was pressing against the door, the door would have to be rammed down.
Natsuhi was lying.
Natsuhi's key was somehow switched with a key that simply could not unlock the door.


Sooner or later, you'll have to get more specific~
>> No. 12100 edit
File 13720986405.png - (252.70KB , 384x480 , leo_16a.png )
12100
>>12097
Fine. Krauss was alive when Kanon knocked on the door at 10:20 a.m.

Kanon's master key was not used to lock or open the door during this murder.
There is only one person to bear the name Krauss.


... ! The culprit never threatened to kill any family member that night.
Genji's motive is not related to money.

>> No. 12101 edit
File 137209968220.png - (152.75KB , 326x667 , bat34.png )
12101
>>12100
The culprit threatened to hurt someone other than himself to make him comply.

Second paradox, Genji's or Shannon's master key was used instead, Kanon may have borrowed her's for the time being as he walked to Krauss's room.

Since we almost have max hint tokens, I want to ask Shannon:

On the first day Shannon, if you can recall, do you remember the conversation that Hideyoshi and Eva had when you were serving them tea in the gazebo?

Last edited at 13/06/24(Mon)11:51:39
>> No. 12102 edit
File 136338112010.png - (252.77KB , 384x480 , leo_16.png )
12102
>>12099
I have no need to deny your points, I need only to deny whatever blue you have to make your theory not work.

Ah, I see, sorry for that. Hmm... Krauss was already dead when Natsuhi left the parlor.

Eh, you too are a stubborn one. Unfortunately, so am I. The only other corpses existing on the island at that time were Genji's and Krauss's. And both were in the storehouse when this one was discovered.

No lock on the island was picked on.

...Correct, Rudolf was the one to set the chain.
As for the chain, refer to the map, it can only be set from the inside.
That last blue for the fourth paradox... I fail to see the point ?

Had a chair been placed to block the door, they would have found it when entering, however all the chair in the room were in order and far away from the door.
Same reasoning here. They'd have found the culprit inside of the room had he done such a thing.
Natsuhi did not lie.
That key did not change hands since Natsuhi picked up. And just remember what Genji said, Any numbered/old key can perfectly open the dining room, among others.

Go ahead, try~

>>12101
The culprit didn't threaten to hurt any family member either.
No master key was used to lock that door.

Last edited at 13/06/24(Mon)12:14:27
>> No. 12103 edit
File 137210267126.jpg - (7.15KB , 300x168 , myeh.jpg )
12103
>>12102

Back to Number 1
The culprit threatened to kill one of the servants.
The culprit has split personality disorder and threatened to kill the other personality.


Hm... There is only one solution for this situation.

DA PRO SOLUTION

The killer is Ushiromiya Kinzo!

Thought he was dead? lolno
The island he brought the gang came on was the island he housed his lover, Beatrice, who gave him gold. One day, she decided to do a prank or him and hid the gold, making a riddle to go along with it. Then she fell down the stairs or something and was then Kinzo was sad. And then he realized he was poor as shit.

So he gave his children the riddles, hoping one of them would solve it. One of them did (probably Rosa) and Genji went to report it to Kinzo, who was hiding out in the storehouse (cuz where else was he going to sleep?) Genji didn't want to tell him which of the children solved it, Kinzo became paranoid as all hell, super-killed Genji, threatening to kill Shannon and/or Kanon. And went after the other bastards, tearing the riddles to send a message to the child that solved it (provided that they are alive at that point) to come forward or DIE.

He used a master key of his own to do everything.

And it was only the most perfectly executed plan never.


...*Cough*

Onto actual theorizing.

Zwei
Fine, in the period between the time Kanon talked to Krauss and Natsuhi reached the door. Someone, at some point, simply went into the room by using a master key OR by being let in by Krauss himself and killed him. Either the door wasn't actually locked, he locked the door from the outside with a master key OR after killing Krauss used a string tirck to get the key no. 1 to get it back into his pocket.

Drei
Fine then - the extinguisher is impossible to use.
She wanted to use the fire extinguisher, but on someone or something else in the kitchen. Her life was not a priority.

Nobody cares about you Rudolf moving on

Fifth Paradox
Rosa faked her death, put another key in the lock herself, thus preventing it from opening.
The lock was literally busted. Duct tape was put on it to mess with it, preventing it from being opened properly.


Also, a question regarding the hint system.
Assume that we ask a culprit a question that's in their best interest to simply not answer (or an accomplice, if one exists) - could the culprit simply lie?
>> No. 12104 edit
File 137210440739.png - (619.09KB , 968x1041 , kirsten~displeased.png )
12104
>>12096
but theres no room 01 theres room 1 and when krausss body was discovered rudolf already mixed up with people so ahahahahaha i can see through your silly wordplay
F-fine then.
I wonder if the door or the window can be locked by some rough move such as slamming or kicking. even though in that case everyone could hear that and go to see what the hell was that
...And if Jessica's or Natsuhi's regular keys were with them all time.
>> No. 12106 edit
File 137210913540.png - (37.07KB , 189x259 , living the dream.png )
12106
>>12102

The lock on the door is able to be turned to the locked position while it's still open, and then was proceeded to be pushed closed to create the locked room. Or it can autolock after it's closed, someone like Kanon didn't need to use their key to lock it behind them.

Last edited at 13/06/24(Mon)15:06:05
>> No. 12108 edit
File 131240019872.png - (102.77KB , 356x480 , sha_fumana1.png )
12108
>>12101
Shannon bows elegantly, looking downcast but calm nevertheless.
"I'm afraid I can't really remember. They were talking about the fragrance of tea when I arrived, but it didn't feel that natural a conversation. I think they were probably talking about the heritage and didn't want me to overhear anything.

Lady Eva knows a lot more about tea than me and she taught me exactly what the fragrance I had brought was, along with others things about tea. But overall nothing of importance."
>> No. 12109 edit
Audio 05_Free_Zone.mp3 - (4.06MB , 05 Free Zone.mp3 )
12109
>>12103
The culprit didn't threaten to kill the servants.
The culprit didn't have multiple personalities.


This is.... Correct. How odd that your words are the exact same as what I wrote in my own solution. But let's just pretend it hasn't been solved already, would be too much of a bummer otherwise~

Heh, read just above, no master key was used to lock that door. And I can confirm that No string trick was used to get the key back in Krauss's room.

The fire extinguisher is working perfectly. Actually I didn't say it in the narration but Kanon, when checking, activated it by inadvertence and got some of it on himself.
Her life was her priority.

For the death faking, you may refer to what I said earlier. And for the key...Same thing as the chair or the culprit blocking the door, they'd have found the key afterwards.
The lock was not busted by the culprit.


As for the hint system, yes, as I said to Anon, if it is in their best interest, they'll lie or modify slightly the truth.

>>12104
Nope, it's impossible to lock something by slamming or kicking it.
As for the keys, hmm... Let's put it that way. Natsuhi and Jessica's never handed their regular keys, never lost and were never stolen of it before the corpse was discovered.
Also, remember to blue your theories~

>>12106
The doors can only be locked while they are closed.
No autolock exists on any door in the whole guesthouse.


Last edited at 13/06/25(Tue)08:33:32
>> No. 12110 edit
File 135343152050.png - (96.60KB , 415x480 , avbb1.png )
12110
>>12109
Screw it.
I have a question for Maria.
Can you describe the events from your point of view between the time Genji's body was found and Krauss' body was found? (Your monther's actions are what I'm specifically interested in.)

Ngh... I'll have to focus on Krauss' murder for now. There's a faint chance that there's just more than one culprit here...

Jessica or Natsuhi at some point made a duplicate of their duplicate keys which she gave to the culprit at some point before Krauss' death.
During the time of discovery for Krauss' murder, Krauss wasn't actually the one inside the room - the culprit threw his body out of a window and then dressed up as Krauss. Thus, he was not 'hiding' in the room, but was, in fact, in plain sight.
After killing Krauss, the culprit locked the door from the outside and slid the key under the door all the way up to Krauss' body.
The key they found next to Krauss was a numbered key, but not to room No. 1.

>> No. 12111 edit
File 137217568774.png - (601.39KB , 968x1041 , kirsten~sneer.png )
12111
>>12109
U~n? Then...
The corpse you are referring here to is actually Genji's corpse. And therefore, after it's discovering, either Jessica's or Natsuhi's key was borrowed and used by the culprit to open the door to room 1.
>> No. 12112 edit
File 137217835949.png - (135.47KB , 453x466 , mar_waraia2.png )
12112
>>12110
Maria comes up to you, looking cheery as ever, despite everything that happened.

"Maria and Mama stayed together almost all the time ! Mama didn't want to play with maria, so Maria played with sakutarou. Mama tried to solve the riddle but she didn't want to have maria's help. Uuu-uu ! Mama was wrong, maria knows a lot about riddles.
Then maria asked for cake, then maria went to the toilet. The walls were thing so maria could hear a little what aunt Eva and uncle Hideyoshi were saying. They were trying to solve a riddle too, hihihi !

When maria got out of the toilet, aunt Eva was outside waiting to get in.
Then maria came back to her room. But while walking back to come back with Mama, Maria saw a hole in the wall ! It closed when Maria got close to it. It must have Beatrice ! Maria is sure of it ! Then Maria came back to her room and ate her cake while Mama continued to try to solve the riddle. Maria tried to share her cake with Mama, but Mama didn't want it. I'm sure she got hungry from it because soon after we went to join everyone !"

Last edited at 13/06/25(Tue)09:40:15
>> No. 12113 edit
File 13721789789.png - (279.49KB , 503x480 , leo_v12.png )
12113
>>12110
The number of keys never changed during the whole game
That's a nice theory there, but refer to my reds about faking death, if he had done such a thing, they would have noticed he wasn't dead.
Plus, The 13 people alive at the time were present inside the room at the discovery of Krauss's corpse. And everyone acknowledged the presence of those 13 persons alive plus Krauss's corpse.
Refer to the narration, Krauss's key is in his pocket, not simply beside him.
The key found inside Krauss's pocket was marked with the number I in roman numbers, it is unmistakable and none other like it exist.

>>12111
The corpse I am referring to is Krauss's corpse.
>> No. 12114 edit
File 134368184142.png - (48.88KB , 185x241 , 2.png )
12114
Well, to be honest here, I'm kind of running out of ideas to what could've went down, assuming there's isn't some kind of elaborate wordplay at work here.

>>12112
Guess I'll try the obvious, then. There was a hole in the wall through which the killer got through in order to kill Krauss and later leave his room. 'Twas patched up at a later point, hence, no secret passages exist at this moment. What Maria saw was the culprit simply covering the hole quickly to avoid detection.

I'm actually pretty sure there's another way to interpret that piece of information, but for now, I'm low on ideas, anyway. Couldn't hurt to try, in any case.
>> No. 12115 edit
File 136371338421.png - (279.54KB , 503x480 , leo_v11.png )
12115
>>12114
No secret passage except the one to the secret basement ever existed during the whole course of the game.
No hole existed at any point either.


Wordplay eh ? Kind of, though that's not the main point.
>> No. 12116 edit
File 134368052517.png - (48.98KB , 185x241 , 1.png )
12116
>>12115
...
...
Wait.

What if Krauss' key was simply planted on him after his body was found?

Last edited at 13/06/25(Tue)10:26:54
>> No. 12117 edit
File 137080352021.png - (278.40KB , 503x480 , leo_v4.png )
12117
>>12116
The key was already there when Natsuhi entered.
>> No. 12118 edit
File 137218347673.png - (102.97KB , 900x675 , wip_black_battler_by_staifia-d5phoga.png )
12118
>>12117
Krauss didn't die instantly, but closed the door/window/whatever after the culprit left, because logic.
If not, Jessica just left the parlor at some point, went to kill her dad, opened and locked the door with her own key, everyone else who says she didn't leave is lying, gg

>> No. 12119 edit
File 137176503090.png - (278.41KB , 503x480 , leo_v7.png )
12119
>>12118
Krauss died instantly.
Kinda hard to move with half of your face chopped off.
Jessica's key was not used to lock or open that door from the point Jessica got into the parlor with the others up to the discovery of Krauss's corpse.
>> No. 12120 edit
File 134941588278.jpg - (309.92KB , 800x802 , Ushiromiya_Battler_full_81789.jpg )
12120
>>12119
At some point in time before she claimed to get Krauss, but after Kanon went to check up on him, Natsuhi left the parlor and killed him.
>> No. 12122 edit
File 136335075057.png - (252.97KB , 384x480 , leo_4.png )
12122
>>12120
After Natsuhi got into the parlor, she never left it until she went to check up on Krauss.
>> No. 12123 edit
File 137219637911.png - (51.15KB , 176x278 , reading.png )
12123
Krauss killed himself, or accidentally fell on an axe that Natsuhi confiscated before the rest of the group found his corpse to hide his shame.
>> No. 12125 edit
File 137219651345.png - (253.06KB , 384x480 , leo_13.png )
12125
>>12123
Heh. Krauss's death was a homicide
>> No. 12126 edit
File 136960043578.png - (158.54KB , 333x680 , bat4-2.png )
12126
Okay, let’s see if I can shake anything out with any wordplay... (It's not shotgunning if I named it something fancy ok?)

You said ‘The three children stayed in the parlor’ after stating ‘Rosa forced Maria to come with her.’

Perhaps she was unsuccessful in getting Maria to follow her.

Jessica never stayed in the parlor before 10:20! She simply returned after finishing opening and closing the door with her key.

Also, she doesn’t have to be the one to murder her own father after all. It could have been Kanon or Shannon for all I know as she helped as an accomplice to open the door.


You said ‘Krauss was not killed after the closed room had been broken’

To that I counter The door was never locked to begin with when Natsuhi went to notify her husband of the dinner. She had the chance to murder him right there, lock the door behind her for some reason. And then opened it again! Illusions to illusions.

And more:

There was a trap placed in Krauss’s room that went off between 10:20 and 11:30 that caused an axe to fly towards his face.

Krauss was not killed by the axe, but by the ‘medication’ that Natsuhi gave him. So he died instantly when taking the wrong pill between 10:20 and 11:30. When Natsuhi discovered the room, she hit him on the head with the axe.

Last edited at 13/06/25(Tue)15:28:37
>> No. 12127 edit
Audio Shiro Sagisu - 2EM35 Nu02 "Carnage" - (1.49MB - 128 kbps - 44.1 kHz , 31 - 2EM35 Nu02 Carnage-edit.mp3 ) Length: 1:38
12127
>>12126
Well, it sure is a nice try. Heheh. Really nice try. But a useless one. My red truth will prevail, while your blue falls down. Will you be brave enough to try until the end ? I wonder.

Rosa was successful in getting Maria to come with her.
Jessica is then included in the "three children".

To make you understand, Jessica did not leave the parlor after 10:30 AM.

You'll have to explain to me how that second blue can pass. Unless you can explain to me that magical use of Jessica's key.

When Natsuhi left to notify her husband, the door was locked.

And how exactly did the axe disappear then ?

Krauss died of a severe case of axe to the face.

Fuhuhu, how fun~
>> No. 12128 edit
File 137220048089.png - (33.51KB , 205x171 , fail.png )
12128
>>12127
...
...
To the trap question:
Natsuhi grabbed the axe when first opening the door after the trap was successful. She's pretty suspicious as one of the few going inside the rooms to set it up after all.
>> No. 12129 edit
File 136337827270.png - (318.30KB , 603x480 , leo_b7.png )
12129
>>12128
No trap was used to kill Krauss
>> No. 12130 edit
File 137220095271.jpg - (110.26KB , 500x667 , tumblr_m4ytg3XsgH1qj1qsqo1_500.jpg )
12130
>>12129
After Kanon left (or hell, could've been Kanon himself after Krauss talked to him, but that doesn't really matter now), Krauss lets the culprit in, culprit kills him, takes the No. 1, locks the door from the outside. Then gives Natsuhi that key. After claiming she's going to check up on him, she goes to his room, plants the key on his corpse and then locks the door herself (or not, she could've just been lying) - technically the body wasn't 'discovered' up to that point anyway, assuming she's an accomplice.
>> No. 12131 edit
File 136338618633.png - (253.29KB , 384x480 , leo_5.png )
12131
>>12130
Still not there. The key was already in Krauss's pocket when Natsuhi left the parlor.

Last edited at 13/06/25(Tue)16:21:57
>> No. 12132 edit
File 137220306536.png - (240.22KB , 500x524 , tumblr_m0l48pyq2d1r04uato1_500.png )
12132
>>12131
The culprit ax'd him through the window and broke the window in the process, but it was never actually opened or unlocked.
The culprit managed to close/lock the window from outside.
The culprit used another mechanism X to lock the door from the inside using the 'no key to lock' feature of the door which was unnoticeable and later picked up by the culprit after the body was discovered.
The culprit ax'd him through the keyhole.
The door was never locked to begin with. The culprit just left. Natsuhi lied.
There's something that can lock/unlock the door that isn't actually a key.
The culprit can pass through walls.
The culprit dug a hole under the door and covered it up.
The culprit removed a wall.
The culprit removed the door off its hinges.
The culprit made the ceiling fall down on Krauss.
The culprit is a dick.
The riddle paper did it.

>> No. 12133 edit
File 13721789789.png - (279.49KB , 503x480 , leo_v12.png )
12133
>>12132
The window was never broken
It is possible to close the window from the outside, however it can only be locked from the inside.

Getting desperate eh ? No such mechanism were brought or existed on the island
It is impossible to axe someone through the keyhole.

Already said it. The door was locked.
The door can only be locked/unlocked from the inside or by a key.
Well, the culprit is a witch, so that's a given.
No hole were dug inside the guesthouse.
No doors or walls were removed.
The ceiling did not budge.

>> No. 12134 edit
File 137221394656.png - (27.47KB , 197x171 , writing.png )
12134
Not a String trick for key? Well now introducing, string trick for lock:

A string was tied to any lock on the inside from the opening the culprit used to exit, and the string just went under the crack of the door. The culprit pulled the string to lock it.

How 'bout Krauss was axed in the face while the culprit was outside with the window open. Krauss was holding on the to window. Maybe, just maybe since Krauss was in a sitting position where one would assume his back was rested against a wall... Krauss, on the way down from falling from his instant death as the window was closing, grabbed and turned some sort of latch lock that created the locked room.

>>12127

Wait, wait... 10:30? That's an unusual time~ I don't think I read that anywhere since you confirmed Krauss was alive at 10:20 in red~

Jessica left the parlor between 10:20 and 10:30 to kill Krauss or was used as an accomplice. Your red 'Jessica's key was not used to lock or open that door from the point Jessica got into the parlor with the others up to the discovery of Krauss's corpse.' didn't specify if it was the only time Jessica entered the parlor.

Last edited at 13/06/26(Wed)01:15:23
>> No. 12135 edit
File 137223452747.png - (278.67KB , 503x480 , leo_v5.png )
12135
>>12134
No string trick was used to lock the door.

The culprit was inside of the room when Krauss died.

Ah, sorry about that, a mistake on my part. Jessica did not leave the parlor after 10:20 AM.
>> No. 12136 edit
File 13695991516.png - (145.89KB , 333x680 , bat2-9.png )
12136
>>12135
Jessica did not "leave" after 10:20 A.M. because she was never there at that time to leave from. She could of hypothetically left at 10:19, and return around 10:30, and then not "leave" until the discovery of the corpse.

Ashes to ashes.
Krauss was not killed in room 01, but elsewhere. When Natsuhi left the parlor, she or some other accomplice dragged his corpse to his room, and Natsuhi unlocked the door, and placed the his body and letter there. Once she was done with that, she left the room and locked it behind her. Probably then to hide the axe. She returned, and unlocked the door and let out a scream.
>> No. 12137 edit
File 13722367246.png - (278.81KB , 503x480 , leo_v3.png )
12137
>>12136
Jessica was in the parlor before 10:20 AM.

Krauss was killed in room 01.

>> No. 12138 edit
File 137223719621.png - (147.39KB , 333x680 , bat3-10.png )
12138
>>12137
Dust to dust.
Krauss was killed by his culprit in his room between 10:20 and 11:30. They fled from the windows after locking the door. Natsuhi comes and unlocks the door, but then goes to lock the windows for some reason before the rest of the group comes.
>> No. 12139 edit
File 136336698458.png - (253.04KB , 384x480 , leo_7.png )
12139
>>12138
Stop bullying poor Natsuhi, she's a fragile woman at heart. The windows were already closed and locked when Natsuhi opened the door.

Last edited at 13/06/26(Wed)02:16:11
>> No. 12140 edit
File 137223794640.png - (640.67KB , 968x1041 , kirsten~default 2.png )
12140
There was some theory about the window that now is non-actual.
Where exactly his corpse was placed at the time when Natsuhi found it? Near some wall? In the corner? Just right in front of the main door~?

Last edited at 13/06/26(Wed)02:17:16
>> No. 12141 edit
File 136338668537.png - (252.93KB , 384x480 , leo_1.png )
12141
>>12140
Yes, t'was a mistake on my part, all fixed up now.

As for Krauss, he was back against his bed, seemingly sitting, pretty much in the middle of the room.
>> No. 12142 edit
File 137223873249.png - (147.88KB , 333x680 , bat3-6.png )
12142
>>12137
Just one more thing, can you repeat that Jessica was in the parlor and never left the entire time from 8:00 (time when they first arrived to the parlor) to 11:30 (approximate time Natsuhi started yelling for everyone to come)?

Otherwise, though it is true Jessica was in the parlor before that time, She 'left' before 10:20 at some point after being inside the parlor, and did not return until a specified time after 10:20 where she could carry out the action listed before. I already listed why I think your other red could be twisted, "from the point Jessica got into the parlor with the others" in that it could be a second or third time etc.

Last edited at 13/06/26(Wed)02:57:57
>> No. 12143 edit
File 13722409088.jpg - (12.73KB , 320x180 , mqdefault.jpg )
12143
>>12135
Wait... Hold on.

You confirmed everyone alive had to be in Krauss' room after his body was discovered...
And yet, if this red is to be taken at face value, Jessica never left the parlor until the end of the game.

Logic error?
>> No. 12145 edit
File 136346695336.png - (318.00KB , 603x480 , leo_b4.png )
12145
>>12142
I refuse. Even she had to go to the toilet. I'll give you something else.
From 8:00 AM, when Jessica entered the parlor to 11:30 AM, the discovery of Krauss's corpse, Jessica's key was not used to open or lock the door to room 01.

>>12143
Heh. You can consider that a logic error, but what was implied is that Jessica did not leave the parlor after 10:20 AM until Krauss's corpse was found.

Last edited at 13/06/26(Wed)08:30:36
>> No. 12146 edit
File 137227796594.png - (28.67KB , 157x201 , all dat red so far.png )
12146
>>12139
Natsuhi is all I have to go on at the moment... but maybe I should move on soon..
>>12096
No one was hiding in room 01 when the corpse was discovered because when Natsuhi first opened the door, the culprit was right there in the open rather than hiding. They used the open door to escape and Natsuhi complied for some reason to not reveal their identity.
or
There was a delayed moment between when the corpse was discovered and Natsuhi opening the door. She probably went inside of the room, and while the culprit was hiding, they quickly dashed inside of the now closing door as Natsuhi had a delayed response to notice that Krauss was now rather a corpse with a gash in his head instead of sitting blissfully in the middle of his room alive and well.
>> No. 12147 edit
File 137227860845.png - (250.04KB , 383x480 , leo_10.png )
12147
>>12146
No living person was inside of the room at the time Natsuhi opened the door.
Natsuhi opening the door and the discovery of Krauss's corpse are considered the same event.

>> No. 12148 edit
File 137228065219.jpg - (25.12KB , 189x108 , snap.jpg )
12148
Krauss died more than once! For example, he had a heart attack and died from that when Natsuhi left the parlor! She came back and gave him CPR and he was brought back to life! And then she murdered him with the axe! Kinda like "Theseus's paradox" eh? Is he the same man as he once was beforee...?

Okay, jokes aside... Now I'm trying to grasp if Maria is just crazy in the head or she actually saw something in her hint. But "no hole existed at any point [in the game?] either."

What about a keyhole?~ (logic error?) This red is really vague. A hole is just an opening after all, and I'm hoping the wielding torch is somehow useful.
The lock was somehow removed from the door to open it, and then was wielded back on. Eh?

Last edited at 13/06/26(Wed)14:04:52
>> No. 12149 edit
File 137219651345.png - (253.06KB , 384x480 , leo_13.png )
12149
>>12148
Haha. Nice one. Krauss only died once.
I think you've now found yourself what that hole was, though it was supposed to be obvious, but whatever.

The lock was not removed.
>> No. 12150 edit
File 137228448442.png - (32.57KB , 157x237 , stare.png )
12150
>>12147
Fine. Another corpse was inside Krauss's room upon discovery of Krauss's corpse to lock the door as an accomplice or simply kill Krauss. This mysterious person X’s corpse could have been removed from the island by the time Eva’s corpse comes around…
>>12096
(Is "one" really a person when they're deaaad?)
>>12037
If the other corpse is someone on the island, I suppose you didn't confirm if Genji was actually dead inside the storehouse, though he was shot. (Maybe by Krauss?) Perhaps all the adults noticed he wasn't dead to begin with, and he was just acting as sacrifice for the preparations or something Kinzo occult related, explaining their behavior to not want to go off the island and his behavior to comply. Genji killed Krauss while hiding in his locked room, Out of revenge? and then hid under the bed to go kill himself. His motivation doesn’t have to match him wanting to play dead.

Yeah I'm grasping for straws here, but I think this closed room is pretty airtight...

Last edited at 13/06/26(Wed)15:12:30
>> No. 12151 edit
File 136378048355.png - (278.24KB , 503x480 , leo_v1.png )
12151
>>12150
No other corpses than Krauss's were inside the room when Natsuhi opened the door.

Genji was very much dead when he was found on the morning of the second day.


You're just searching things that aren't there. For now I'd recommend you move on if you're that lost. Eva's case should not be too hard.
>> No. 12152 edit
File 135351726645.png - (96.67KB , 415x480 , avbb2.png )
12152
>>12149
A 'hole', huh?
I got this.
The culprit cut off Krauss' ass and decided to leave it out in the hallway as a cruel act of... cruelty, and an alert that something bad's happened. And so, as Maria was walking down the hallway, she noticed the ass, chillin' in the hallway when Squitcher decided 'Nah... Nah, I'm gonna keep this PG-13' and just deleted the ass, with Maria witnessing it. Then, as an apology to Krauss for this ass-stealing, he put him in a sitting position.

It almost makes too much sense.

...On a serious note, I am running out of any logical ideas for this. If it weren't for this new 'hole', I'd still try to explain it with a way that doesn't involve wordplay, but... Well - I'm going to give it one last shot before I just start going insane:

Jessica was given a key that, in fact, doesn't unlock Room 1, but a different room, either by mistake or on purpose. Since she had it from the beginning, it's 'her key'. Alternatively, she gave the key to someone ele waaaay earlier than this entire section or before she even entered the parlor (in fact - let's say they switched keys).
Just for the hell of it, I'll just say that it could've been Natsuhi. Just for good measure.


Alternatively...


The door was locked with a key by the culprit right after he or she murdered Krauss.
There.
Just throw me a bone.
Just... Just tell me should I even be looking at keys anymore.
Because this is torture.

Last edited at 13/06/26(Wed)15:22:51
>> No. 12153 edit
File 137227860845.png - (250.04KB , 383x480 , leo_10.png )
12153
>>12152
Alright I feel bad enough now.
When Genji handed the keys to everyone not a word of his concerning what they were and what they opened was false.

The door was locked with a key.


I'll be honest with you, it's perfectly normal that you're finding this room hard. It is probably the hardest, though Rudolf's and Rosa's can be seen as unfair as well. Anyway, just move on to Eva's. I guarantee this one's perfectly solvable.
And you should probably end Genji's at some point too.
>> No. 12154 edit
File 136959811635.png - (151.62KB , 326x666 , bat1.png )
12154
Hey, this sounds cruel enough:
Krauss's "pocket" could of referred to a multitude of articles of clothing. For example, his corpse was found with his suit jacket missing, that was outside of the room that the culprit could of slipped it into. Or slipped into his pants that could of been cleaned inside of the servants room.
>> No. 12155 edit
File 135360013472.png - (98.71KB , 415x480 , avbb3.png )
12155
>>12153
I'm not achieving much by giving up. It's just 'die another day'. Even if we solve Eva's, the issue is that it's obvious that the solution won't give us an idea as to who the culprit is (which makes sense at her placing among the murders, too).

As long as it's physically possible, then there must be something we're missing here.

Question to Hideyoshi: Describe the hallway, the wall around the door to Krauss' room and the door itself as you were getting there after you heard that something was up.

There are... other options for me to work with here:
Jessica's and/or Natsuhi's hand was cut off while holding the key. Hence, they still hand it on them at all times.
There's more than one person called Natsuhi on this island.
There's more than one person called Jessica on this island.
Upon discovery, everyone actually entered a room other than Room 1 somehow.
Krauss was killed when he stuck his head out of the window. The window was then later closed and locked by someone else after the room was entered. (Or, just that last part - the window was unlocked, but someone locked it after the body was discovered)
The door has a secret hole in it through which a person or object can pass through while not being counted as a secret passage.
There' still a theory about the keys being switched at some point with another (referring to the keys in Natsuhi/Jessica's possession, I mean).
There's a revolving wall.

>> No. 12156 edit
File 137079759610.png - (253.25KB , 384x480 , leo_11a.png )
12156
>>12154
Krauss's pocket refers to the pocket of his pants, and no article of clothing of his was missing
>> No. 12157 edit
File 136960022226.png - (152.20KB , 326x666 , bat2.png )
12157
>>12156

So can you confirm that the key was inside the pocket of the pants that his corpse is wearing? Otherwise pants is both singular and plural where the key could be slipped inside pants that his corpse is not wearing. The pants don't necessarily have to be missing because everyone found it anyway.
>> No. 12158 edit
File 137228839588.png - (278.22KB , 503x480 , leo_v8.png )
12158
>>12155
Alright, I will not act out the part of Hideyoshi because I don't want you to use a hint that uselessly. What Maria saw was the entrance to the Secret passage.
I thought the map made it obvious, but whatever.

Jessica and Natsuhi's hand were never cut off from their respective bodies.
There exist no person that have the same name as another on the island.
Everyone entered room 01 upon discovery.

Please refer to that post >>12139
Apart from when the door and the windows, there exist no space big enough for anyone to enter in the room.
From the moment they were given their key by Genji until the discovery of Krauss's corpse, Jessica and Natsuhi's key never left their possession.
No revolving walls exist.


>>12157
the key was inside the pocket of the pants that his corpse is wearing

Sure, it may be so, but I really, REALLY recommend you move on.

Last edited at 13/06/26(Wed)16:13:52
>> No. 12159 edit
File 137231187161.png - (17.30KB , 117x173 , im running out of battler.png )
12159
Since you matched the context of a "hole" as one big enough that a person can exit as nonexistent, I'll just posit this before moving on:

The culprit killed Krauss with an axe and used his roman numeral key to exit and lock it behind themselves. I'm not sure if what Maria said was important, but the culprit then put back the key inside Krauss's pocket through a small opening only a hand can get through like a movable floorboard. Since the underground basement was quite large, perhaps Maria saw them traverse there with Krauss's key to put it back into his pocket to create the closed room.

Ok, now to the moving on part: Eva was killed and burnt before 6:00 in the kitchen. The culprit entered through the window (or the door while locking it behind them), and exited the open window as they closed it behind them. Inside, they lit Eva on fire as they then moved the fire extinguisher from the hidden spot already in the kitchen where Eva couldn't find it in time, and instead to a location more visible next to the corpse.

To add to that, perhaps Eva was not killed by the flames, but was burnt after her death in the kitchen explaining the lack of struggle.

Maybe the culprit never had to enter the kitchen in the first place, whereas they only had to pour some sort of flammable liquid in the room under the door or through the window undetected in massive amounts. Eva couldn't escape or grab the fire extinguisher in time as the flames lit up the kitchen and set her ablaze. It's kinda hard to focus when you're on fire I'm assuming. Perhaps the flame was ignited with the wielding torch too. Then, the culprit just had to slip the letter inside or throw it from the window near her burnt corpse.

Last edited at 13/06/27(Thu)00:19:05
>> No. 12160 edit
File 137232116879.png - (278.77KB , 503x480 , leo_v7a.png )
12160
>>12159
I should have seen this coming I guess. No hole big enough to let the key go through exists either.

The window of the kitchen is too small for someone adult-sized ( Everyone except Maria ) to enter or exit the room.

Eva died from immolation. The fire extinguisher was in plain view for her when she was set on fire.

No trace of fire was found in the room beside Eva. Basically even though half of the kitchen was burnt, it's only concentrated around Eva's corpse.

Last edited at 13/06/27(Thu)01:25:14
>> No. 12161 edit
File 137232244573.png - (46.59KB , 196x241 , Yes Eva Ill figure out who immolated you.png )
12161
>>12160

Although it was in plain view, Eva wanted to grab it but the fire extinguisher was unreachable even though she attempted to. Such as inside of a glass case, too high on something, the culprit was holding it, or simply because she was on fire and was freaking out to think rationally.

The culprit was standing outside the window while lighting Eva on fire with a flammable liquid or just setting her on fire I guess. Or Maria entered and exited the window to immolate Eva.

Well hell, I'll just ask someone how the body was found... someone probably impartial:

Jessica, how did the kitchen look with Eva's corpse inside when you first arrived? To be exact, where was her position compared to the openings, fire extinguisher, and other arraignments like shelves or the stove?

Last edited at 13/06/27(Thu)02:06:00
>> No. 12162 edit
File 137232651088.png - (278.68KB , 503x480 , leo_v3a.png )
12162
>>12161
The fire extinguisher was perfectly reachable.
Correct, the culprit set Eva on fire from the outside. Though the extinguisher's quandary is not solved.
>> No. 12163 edit
File 137232731445.png - (51.45KB , 191x261 , eva had no chance.png )
12163
>>12162

Until Jessica comes, I'll just guess that the culprit was holding the fire extinguisher through the window as Eva tried to grab it. but the culprit said "lolno" and was playing tug-of-war with it or moved the fire extinguisher quick enough so that she couldn't grab it, all the while keeping it inside the kitchen. The culprit then dropped the fire extinguisher inside the kitchen near her corpse.

Or probably the culprit told her the fire extinguisher was rigged, dangerous, or unhepful in the wake of a fire. Or Eva was instructed not to not do so ala Genji, because physical threat against family, money, riddle answer, etc.
>> No. 12164 edit
File 137232828179.png - (318.24KB , 603x480 , leo_b9.png )
12164
>>12163
The culprit was not holding the fire extinguisher, in fact Eva could access it easily.

Eva was never told or instructed anything about the fire extinguisher.
>> No. 12165 edit
File 137232870966.png - (415.31KB , 862x543 , japancantintomehico.png )
12165
The fire extinguisher wouldn't have saved Eva from dying, aware of this, she didn't use it.
>> No. 12166 edit
File 137232875650.png - (33.31KB , 190x217 , If this is the answer I dont feel bad for her.png )
12166
>>12164
Eva was irrational enough or in too much pain when she did not grab the fire extinguisher while on fire, or did not notice it until it was too late. She probably tried to stop, drop and roll first, but the flames--they consumed her too quickly.

Last edited at 13/06/27(Thu)03:37:33
>> No. 12167 edit
File 137233028846.jpg - (43.96KB , 552x640 , aizentemplate2u.jpg )
12167
>>12165
>>12166
Since when were you under the impression that Eva did not reach the fire extinguisher ?
Because she did, she even managed to take it and was holding it.
>> No. 12169 edit
File 137233070892.png - (8.74KB , 87x100 , ok.png )
12169
Hmm, I don't know if that changes much.

She grabbed it but it was too late to use it, the flames consumed her too quickly or she was in too much pain to function.

Or
Eva used the fire extinguisher to attack the culprit while on fire rather than tending to her own safety. That's a pretty scary image though...

Last edited at 13/06/27(Thu)04:00:29
>> No. 12170 edit
File 136329875499.png - (253.63KB , 384x480 , leo_11.png )
12170
>>12169
Eva was not in such pain she could not use it.

Eva did not attack the culprit with the fire extinguisher.

>> No. 12171 edit
File 137170301338.png - (640.70KB , 968x1041 , kirsten~default 1.png )
12171
the question was "why she didnt reach" not "why she didnt use" but shes actually reached the fire extinguisher and thus the answer is already given
>>12167
I wonder when did she do that? Maybe Eva was holding the fire extinguisher before she was set on fire.
Or, even though it looks pretty dumb for her, Eva lost her consciousness while trying to use the fire extinguisher. She lost it due to an accidental hit by the fire extinguisher or some kitchen stand or some hanged thing like a pan.
>> No. 12172 edit
File 136346695336.png - (318.00KB , 603x480 , leo_b4.png )
12172
>>12171
I get that, though the questions were not supposed to be truth, simply guidelines. I guess I should have said "Why is the fire extinguisher full next to her while she's burnt to a crisp ?". Sorry about that.

Anyway, Eva was holding the fire extinguisher while she was on fire. Eva did not lose consciousness.
>> No. 12173 edit
File 137234806765.jpg - (79.65KB , 351x546 , 129514783150.jpg )
12173
>>12167
You nasty boy, you didn't deny my blue at all. Had Eva grabbed the fire extinguisher or nor is irrelevant. Using it wouldn't have saved her. In fact, how about this, the fire extinguisher was part of the culprit's setting to set the room on fire, and finally, about the exact method, how about if the fire extinguisher was set up to throw a burning chemical.
>> No. 12174 edit
File 13720986405.png - (252.70KB , 384x480 , leo_16a.png )
12174
>>12173
Ugh... This is... Correct... The fire extinguisher contained gas.
I'm sure you can explain the closed room with this now, and how things came to be.
>> No. 12175 edit
File 137235728416.jpg - (55.95KB , 500x562 , 5152521591951.jpg )
12175
>>12174
Very well, the culprit started a small fire in the kitchen from the outside of the room, perhaps through the window. Then Eva tried to use the fire extinguisher the stop the fire and she was burnt in the process. Alternatively, the extinguisher was leaking gas, and the culprit just caused it to explode.
>> No. 12176 edit
File 137227860845.png - (250.04KB , 383x480 , leo_10.png )
12176
>>12175
Not really, you're almost there tho. The culprit did not lit on fire the room itself.
>> No. 12177 edit
File 137235870260.jpg - (26.83KB , 853x480 , ill-protect-milady.jpg )
12177
>>12176
Then Eva accidentally started it herself. The fire extinguisher was left on the room beforehand waiting for someone to try to use it.
>> No. 12178 edit
File 136338104329.png - (252.82KB , 384x480 , leo_8.png )
12178
>>12177
The fire was started by the culprit.
Come on, this should be easy.
>> No. 12179 edit
File 137235980433.jpg - (170.05KB , 640x480 , saveusbernkastel_seacats.jpg )
12179
>>12178
This is getting tiring, you know. The culprit set Eva on fire from the outside of the room, and left the trap-extinguisher inside of the room beforehand to finish off her when she tried to put it down.
>> No. 12180 edit
File 137232244573.png - (46.59KB , 196x241 , Eva u ded now.png )
12180
>>12178
The culprit stood outside and lit Eva on fire through the window. She attempted to use the fire extinguisher on herself but gas came outside and ignited herself farther. The culprit then filled the fire extinguisher back up with normal fire extinguisher chemicals (or something similar that looks like it) either before the discovery, when Kanon and Shannon first opened the kitchen, or reaching for it from the window.

Last edited at 13/06/27(Thu)12:29:12
>> No. 12181 edit
File 136337763540.png - (250.24KB , 383x480 , leo_4a.png )
12181
>>12179
>>12180
Correct. You might add that The culprit closed the door then after and that Eva was the one to lock the door. But this should be obvious already. For the extinguisher, I'll add that string was tied around the extinguisher up to the window and this is how the culprit got it back.

Anyway, the third paradox is now fully solved. See, this was easily solvable. What will you do now, I wonder ?

Last edited at 13/06/27(Thu)12:39:46
>> No. 12183 edit
File 137236397379.png - (178.04KB , 537x305 , goodbye eva.png )
12183
Normal stuff for Rudolf:

The culprit killed Rudolf and they fit through his set chain lock, and then locked the door behind themselves with either Jessica's or Natsuhi's normal key, Krauss's old key, or one of the master keys.

The culprit entered and exited through the window to kill Rudolf. A smaller accomplice (*ahem* Maria) fit through the set chain lock to go lock the window and come back. The culprit then locked the door with the keys listed above.

The culprit killed Rudolf while standing outside the set chain lock through the gap and stabbed him etc. In the 20 seconds he moved to the center of the room. Then the culprit locked the door with the keys listed above.

>>12122
Since the second paradox keeps bugging me, I'll just check that Natsuhi falls under the same scrutiny as Jessica, so perhaps Natsuhi left the parlor to check up on her husband more than once. Or at least repeating Natsuhi never left the parlor between 9:15 and leaving to discover his corpse.
>>12153
Although Genji never lied about what the keys were and their uses, Natsuhi was handed the master key instead. When she went to check up on Krauss, she used that key to open the door. The culprit used the other 01 key to kill Krauss and create the locked room.

Last edited at 13/06/27(Thu)15:28:37
>> No. 12185 edit
File 137170301338.png - (640.70KB , 968x1041 , kirsten~default 1.png )
12185
I'd like to add to the above that Rudolf entered with the culprit, he then set the chain, got killed, the culprit then reset the chain, came out, set the chain again by putting its hand through the gap, and locked the door.
Strangely, I'd also like to think that Rudolf was killed while the rest was in the kitchen. But if otherwise, then it seems that the culprit used it's own or the accomplice's regular key to lock the door.
Also, I wonder if the same method of escaping the room was used in Krauss's case.
>> No. 12186 edit
Audio Yuki Kajiura - Symposium magarum - (1.63MB - 128 kbps - 44.1 kHz , 11-Symposium magarum - edit.mp3 ) Length: 1:47
12186
>>12183
Agh... A direct hit again.. Rudolf was killed through the opening formed by the chain lock.
... But this is not over yet. Natsuhi had all the keys except Jessica's key that could open room 1 when they searched for Rudolf. She did not at any point lose one, was stolen of one or handed one, Jessica neither. Jessica was always with the others and they never left track of her. Natsuhi did not enter room 1 from the point where she left it after hearing Shannon's scream up to the discovery of Rudolf's corpse !

Natsuhi only went to check up on Krauss once.

Everyone was handed the correct keys.


>>12185
The only regular keys that can open that door are Jessica's and Natsuhi's, and, well, just look above.
>> No. 12187 edit
Audio 07-Callisto~short.mp3 - (1.86MB )
12187
>>12186
i vaguely pointed at them actually but anyway
Well then... w-wait.
The one who had the master keys was actually Rosa, wasn't she? The narration states that "Rosa intervened", then "she turned towards the servants", and at last, "she ordered" to give her a keys.
>> No. 12189 edit
File 13724519284.png - (252.94KB , 384x480 , leo_8a.png )
12189
>>12187
........Fuck. FUCK. FUCKITY FUCK FUCK.
LOGIC ERROR
Aaaaaaah, fuck me, I did the simplest of errors by not checking my text again. Truly, sorry about that, that's a baby's error.

I wish you won't mind that I'll modify the previous red truth then.
>Natsuhi had all the keys except Jessica's key that could open room 1 when they searched for Rudolf. She did not at any point lose one, was stolen of one or handed one, Jessica neither. Jessica was always with the others and they never left track of her. Natsuhi did not enter room 1 from the point where she left it after hearing Shannon's scream up to the discovery of Rudolf's corpse !

This truth doesn't hold up anymore.

Rosa had the three master keys, but the master keys were not used to lock room 1.
Natsuhi and Jessica had the numbered key and both their regular keys but they never out of sight from the group. And they were never seen opening that door until Rudolf's corpse was discovered.

>> No. 12190 edit
Audio - (4.20MB - 128 kbps - 44.1 kHz , Infant Queen Bee.mp3 ) Length: 4:35
12190
Looogiiic eerroorsss aside, there's no magical Kanon to save Rudolf now:

Rudolf was killed before Shannon was heard screaming, and Jessica or Natsuhi used their key.

Jessica or Natsuhi, although not leaving sight from the group, went to the front of their room, noticed it wasn't locked (not noticing the corpse either or just simply didn't open the door) and just locked the door with one of the three keys.

Last edited at 13/06/28(Fri)13:56:43
>> No. 12191 edit
File 136335075057.png - (252.97KB , 384x480 , leo_4.png )
12191
>>12190
Should I remind you that Natsuhi and Jessica slept in that room ? They both woke up upon hearing Shannon's scream, and they didn't found any corpse upon waking up.

They were never seen locking the door either.
>> No. 12192 edit
File 13724542226.png - (134.36KB , 344x499 , ange BSOD.png )
12192
>>12191

Rudolf was killed before Natsuhi and Jessica entered the kitchen. They used one of their keys to lock the door before they met the group.

They locked the door covertly without anyone seeing when in the group.
>> No. 12193 edit
File 137245438752.png - (278.46KB , 503x480 , leo_v2a.png )
12193
>>12192
Rudolf was alive when they entered the kitchen.

Due to how the group was, there was nothing they could do covertly.
>> No. 12194 edit
File 13724552192.png - (85.55KB , 305x345 , ange bsod take 2.png )
12194
>>12193

Rudolf had a delayed death anyway. Rudolf was stabbed before they entered the kitchen. They locked the door behind them, and within the 20 seconds until his death, they already ran and entered kitchen.

A string trick or mechanism X was used to lock the door. In other words, a key was not used.

Edit: Let me just add this for paradox 2:

Repeat it. Natsuhi's key never left the parlor from the time she entered at 9:15 to the time she left to check the corpse. Additionally, the times in the narration and in your red are absolute. "The clock rings a 8:00 and everyone wakes up." Is it really 8:00 or did someone mess with it?

>She did not at any point lose one, was stolen of one or handed one.

And what is to hand something to someone anyway? In my eyes, that's more like directly trading off the item. So, in other words, Natsuhi indirectly gave the key to the culprit. For example, she purposely put the key somewhere inside the parlor or guesthouse. The culprit then grabbed the key in its respective location as they left to Krauss's room to kill him and create the locked room. They then returned the key somehow, directly or indirectly, to Natsuhi before she left the parlor.

This may work for paradox 4 as well: Jessica's, Natsuhi's, or Krauss's key was purposely left somewhere in the guest house. The culprit found the key's respective location to kill Rudolf and lock it, and gave it back to either Jessica or Natsuhi before they started searching for Rudolf.

Last edited at 13/06/29(Sat)01:19:23
>> No. 12201 edit
File 137250535850.png - (701.77KB , 968x1041 , kirsten~felmur.png )
12201
>>12189
too bad there's no "choking" for a written reds
What group? Natsuhi and the rest just played that scene in a kitchen to deceive Rosa.

Or maybe either Jessica or Natsuhi found the room unlocked and used her key to lock it while being completely sure there is no one in the room. well except if she locked the room earlier because in that case natsuhi would raise a noise
>> No. 12209 edit
Audio - (2.91MB - 128 kbps - 22.05 kHz , Mawaru Penguindrum Volume 8 - OST 13 - Fate of the.mp3 ) Length: 3:09
12209


No… I've been doing this wrong, haven't I? I'm sorry for wasting your time with so many useless blues, because shot gunning this mystery won't do it justice.
Although this theory is by most estimations wrong, let me just do this properly. This all rests on keys after all, and this can be killed in one swift red. But I can try again at a later time with something different, yet something all encompassing. I’m just hoping you don’t see this as one big blue--but rather different shards of the single truth.

What is Theseus’s Paradox? It raises the philosophical question that if an object that had all its components replaced, is it really the same object? By Beatrice’s final thesis, it seems she would concurrently disagree that it is (as with me). Therefore, I come to the conclusion that there are more keys than what meets the eye. Let me set this to the backdrop of an earlier theory:

Kanon, you are the culprit.

FIRST PARADOX

July 21st, someone devastatingly solved the riddle in time. Genji, who knew that the inheritance also meant a great deal to the Fukuin house if the riddle remained unsolved, had to be sly with Kanon and told him he had to “check up on something” at the store house. He was actually fetching where the true keys to the safe were stored. He did not lie about the uses of the numbered old keys he handed to the adults, only that they were not the correct keys in opening the safe. Rather, the keys that open only the safe look similar, but are simply not the same. The person who solved the riddle may have already entered inside the underground basement and tried to use their key and was furious explaining Genji’s nervousness and demand to keep everyone inside. I’ll get to the specifics later. He tried to enter the storehouse, but Kanon stopped him in time. Before this, Kanon had already taken all the objects out of the storehouse and unlocked the window. Kanon said he would give back the true keys to the safe if Genji complied with something really quick. Bang, Genji died. He is now unable to let the riddle fall to public ears. At some point Kanon also took the gold with the keys while leaving the safe open. Maria probably saw him enter.

SECOND PARADOX

Kanon had to serve something to the west corridor. An axe that is. He went by Krauss’s door, knocked, and then went in for the kill. He locked the door with Krauss’s room numbered key, and left the Krauss safe key in his pocket. The red where you say his key is unmistakable and none others like it exist, that's because they probably look somewhat different (other roman numeral font?) and the safe key has another use according to this theory.
I will admit this is the only red I kinda have to twist.

THIRD PARADOX

Solved. Kanon probably used the wielding torch to light Eva on fire while outside. They never really had to enter the kitchen during the murder which makes this the most illuminating. The key may or may not have been switched at one point.

FOURTH PARADOX

Door was locked in the same manner as Krauss’s. Method of murder was solved. When the group left Kanon had his chance to murder and switch the keys again. Kanon probably offered him the other key in exchange for his, but then stabbed him when switching off keys.

FIFTH PARADOX

I’ll just take a wild guess and say that Rosa solved it originally, explaining why she left (to check the underground basement again). Kanon slipped out during the arguments and killed Rosa swiftly, probably with the saw. He then switched the keys again, like stated before, Kanon took the regular old key while placing the safe key in her pocket. He locked the door behind her. Natsuhi tried to use Krauss’s old key on the door, but alas, the key she now had in her possession was simply one of the safe keys.

OTHER MYSTERIES

Kanon could have been helped by Shannon as an accomplice at some point, placing letters etc, either with the gold or killing Rosa when she and George left. (Or hell, you can probably switch their names around for this theory)
Thematically, the last letter just sounds like something Kanon would write “I used to think I could believe in others, support their dreams and that their happiness would bring me my own. But as I cannot understand them…” He cannot fathom the selfish desires the children want with the gold, and he rather see the money be put to better use in the Fukuin house. He also had knowledge of Genji’s briefcase’s key, and the sole owner to the key of where corpses are found after all.

And with that, I don’t see any mystery left.

Last edited at 13/06/30(Sun)03:57:16
>> No. 12210 edit
File 13721789789.png - (279.49KB , 503x480 , leo_v12.png )
12210
>>12194
I knew you'd say that blue. Rudolf was not stabbed before they entered the kitchen.

A key was used to lock the door.

The clock's time is correct and was never tampered with at any moment.

Hmm. How insistent. Natsuhi's key never left her possession from 9h15 until the discovery of Krauss's corpse.

The technique you describe falls under the definition of handing over.

>>12201
The scene in the kitchen was genuine for at least 5 out of the 6 persons.

I think I already did enough concerning that locking part.
>> No. 12212 edit
Audio Takada Ryuuichi - Rikishi no Tenkan Ten - (3.03MB - 128 kbps - 44.1 kHz , 21 - Rikishi no Tenkan Ten - edit.mp3 ) Length: 3:19
12212
>>12209
Good, good. You have a chosen a most good path there my dear. I can confirm to you that this is the correct way to go about it.
However, I'm sorry to say this but...

The only keys on the island are the three master keys, the 4 numbered keys, the 7 regular keys, the storehouse key and Genji's briefcase key. No other key ever existed at any point on the island.

That, and The keys that open the safe are the 4 numbered keys.

Finally, last blow. The wielding torch was not used to light Eva on fire.
>> No. 12213 edit
File 137259177629.png - (83.84KB , 274x327 , USODA.png )
12213
>>12211
Paradox 4. Repeat it. Natsuhi's and Jessica's keys never left their respective person.

Now the only thing normal I can think of for paradox 2 got ugly, y'know that? In order:

Culprit killed Krauss with door locked by old key from inside. Culprit stayed in room until:
Natsuhi left the parlor.
Culprit then unlocked door and left.


>When Natsuhi left to notify her husband, the door was locked.
Whatever that means. Is it when she tried to open the door or when she left the parlor?

Last edited at 13/06/30(Sun)04:34:18
>> No. 12214 edit
File 137259233371.png - (280.76KB , 503x480 , leo_v12a.png )
12214
>>12213
Natsuhi and Jessica's key never left their respective persons.

The culprit had left by the time Natsuhi got out of the parlor.

It applies to both, really.

Don't stop thinking Camphor. Don't stop.

Last edited at 13/06/30(Sun)04:43:00
>> No. 12215 edit
File 137259313731.png - (391.15KB , 793x562 , I hate keys now.png )
12215
>>12214
Ok, ok. Still thinking for paradox 2.
...
The map is sectioned off unusually too, why are the walls separated?
Rooms can move around and detach from the guesthouse, so room 01 just refers to the room in its respective spot! Jessica's key really was used to lock that door when it wasn't in the location of room 01!
Yeah, I don't know either.
The floor was sawed off and wielded back on, offering the culprit a mode of escape.
Once again, a hole is a broad term.
The parlor can refer to something other than the parlor
Room 1 can refer to something other than room 1
Mechanism X brought the old key back to Krauss's pocket.
The hallways are really narrow and Natsuhi can lock and unlock the door just by keeping part of her body inside the parlor

Last edited at 13/06/30(Sun)04:58:31
>> No. 12216 edit
File 137259393789.png - (278.69KB , 503x480 , leo_v15.png )
12216
>>12215
... How disappointing.
The rooms cannot move around. The rooms refer to the room themselves, and never did they change location.

No part of the room was removed or destroyed.

No mechanism were used for the whole game to create closed rooms or to murder apart from Genji's

Rooms names only refer to a single room.


I don't even... what ? No

Last edited at 13/06/30(Sun)05:15:10
>> No. 12217 edit
File 137259520438.jpg - (17.84KB , 122x215 , why.jpg )
12217
The culprit wielded the windows while shut, ergo making them locked from the outside to escape after locking the door with Krauss's key.. Do you think you can define "locked" for this game?

His corpse was chopped in half by the axe, his legs, along with the old roman numeral 1 key inside his pants are outside of the room.

Natsuhi tied a string around her key and gave it to the culprit. Therefore, it was in her possession the entire time and never handed it over, and/or she just let the culprit borrow it! Alternatively, the key was broken in such a way where Natsuhi was able to keep possession of her key the entire time while the culprit had the other piece with the ability to lock the door. It may have been fixed or recombined by the time she left to check Krauss. This may apply to Krauss's key as well, only a piece of Krauss's key was found, while the culprit had some sort of other piece that had the ability to lock the door. These can also be considered a method of locking the door for Rudolf too.



>There exist no person that have the same name as another on the island.
People be all havin' fun and doing some name swapping "Let's get over our massive trauma from our butler dying by doing some therapy! You're Jessica, and now you're Natsuhi. Therefore we do not have the same name at the same time, and so since I'm now Jessica with Natsuhi's key, I can leave."
...
...
Yeah, let me just ask this one last hint then:

Battler squitcher, When you were in the parlor on the second day, did you notice anything weiird? Specifically from Natsuhi? Or the conversations that were going on? Anything?

Last edited at 13/07/01(Mon)02:13:38
>> No. 12218 edit
File 137259651681.png - (249.82KB , 400x400 , ALL GLORY TO THE BEAM.png )
12218
My thoughts are spinning around the same things so I can't add something new for now. I'd rather check the old reds.
Also, I wonder if the time when Rudolf got killed can be considered as the same time when the door was locked behind him.

There was something that is irrelevant now.

Last edited at 13/06/30(Sun)05:51:16
>> No. 12219 edit
File 137263415378.jpg - (27.11KB , 220x270 , so I was there.jpg )
12219
>>12113
>The 13 people alive at the time were present inside the room at the discovery of Krauss's corpse.

Wait... huh? If Genji and Krauss are very much dead, doesn't that leave 12 people alive? So unless Genji went to check on Kinzo and he's still alive, Natsuhi's twin with a different last name exists as they switch off keys, Ange, or a mysterious person X entered Room 1 where everyone has to acknowledge their presence I'm going to call logic error.

Last edited at 13/06/30(Sun)17:05:51
>> No. 12223 edit
File 131449069483.png - (119.60KB , 352x480 , but_odorokia3.png )
12223
>>12217
Battler appears, solemn and quiet.

"Well, after what happened, we children didn't find much to do, nor did we know what we should do. Kanon and Shannon looked lost as well, so nothing really happened for a while.
When Natsuhi arrived, I just noticed that her left cheek was red and swollen. She didn't try to start any conversation either, simply sat and looked out the window with that sad look on her face.
After that... I remember her looking weird when Kyrie arrived. She came up to her and told her something I couldn't hear, but Kyrie just shook her head in disapproval.
She then went back to sitting and looking out the window.
As for Kyrie, well she seemed composed as she always is and I think her presence eased up the mood for us all, and we started talking as if nothing had happened.
That is all I can remember."
>> No. 12224 edit
File 136338112010.png - (252.77KB , 384x480 , leo_16.png )
12224
>>12217
It is impossible to lock the window from the outside.

I'm afraid not. Locked has no different meaning here than in any other game.

The corpse was found intact except for the wound in the head.

This wouldn't be considered in her possession.

Krauss's key was found whole and stayed that way for the whole game. Natsuhi's key stayed whole too.

No one swapped their names with anyone.


>>12219
welp, another logic error. I meant 12 people.
I apparently can't count. Sorry again for that.

Last edited at 13/07/01(Mon)04:03:59
>> No. 12227 edit
Well, here's most of the reds so far, I'm doing this since I was requested to, and it'll help both the players and the lurkers who feel lost with so much red and blue to keep track of. There may be some missing though.

General Red

Kanon and Shannon are not the same person.

The safe contained the infamous ten tons of gold of Kinzo, Genji was aware of this, knew how to access the secret basement and how to open the safe. Had he wanted money, he could have very well stole it.

The numbered keys can only open their own room. No numbered key can open another bedroom than their own.

When the group entered the secret basement, the safe was already open. Hideyoshi did turn the key, however nothing happened.

The term you're looking for is ventriloquism. No one on the island is able to do such a thing.

The only ways to enter room 01 is by the door or the several windows.

No material were brought or existed on the island that could fake someone's death or create a fake corpse real enough that no one would notice it.

There is only one person to bear the name Krauss.

No lock on the island was picked on.

Any numbered/old key can perfectly open the dining room, among others.

it's impossible to lock something by slamming or kicking it.

The doors can only be locked while they are closed.

No autolock exists on any door in the whole guesthouse.

The number of keys never changed during the whole game

No secret passage except the one to the secret basement ever existed during the whole course of the game.

No hole existed at any point either.

It is possible to close the window from the outside, however it can only be locked from the inside

No such mechanism were brought or existed on the island

It is impossible to axe someone through the keyhole.

No hole were dug inside the guesthouse.

No doors or walls were removed.

The ceiling did not budge.

What Maria saw was the entrance to the Secret passage.

Jessica and Natsuhi's hand were never cut off from their respective bodies.

There exist no person that have the same name as another on the island.

No revolving walls exist.

Everyone was handed the correct keys.

The clock's time is correct and was never tampered with at any moment.

The only keys on the island are the three master keys, the 4 numbered keys, the 7 regular keys, the storehouse key and Genji's briefcase key. No other key ever existed at any point on the island.

The keys that open the safe are the 4 numbered keys.

The rooms cannot move around. The rooms refer to the room themselves, and never did they change location.

No mechanism were used for the whole game to create closed rooms or to murder apart from Genji's

Rooms names only refer to a single room.

Krauss's key was found whole and stayed that way for the whole game. Natsuhi's key stayed whole too.

No one swapped their names with anyone.


First Paradox

The string wasn't used to slide the key under the door

The key wasn't slid into the room

The shelf fell after the window had been shut and locked.

The window was not closed and locked by a human hand, but by a mechanism

That is mostly correct. There was no weight however, Genji's head acted as the weight, and the string was not broken by a gunshot, but by the shelf falling over.

The door of the storehouse cannot be locked from the inside, be it with a key or without.

The culprit never handed the key to someone else. Nor was it handed to him.

The key couldn't have returned in his pocket simply by throwing it from the window, and the string was not used that way.

The key was already in Genji's pocket before the group entered and discovered his body.

The window was unlocked from the start.

Genji did enter from the window with the key still inside of his pocket.

Genji did not lock the door.

The culprit never entered the room via the window.

Correct. The storehouse was locked from the start, Genji entered by the window and set everything up, then the culprit shot him.

Genji wasn't aware that objects were missing when he took the key.
On the schedule, no preparations were to be made before 3:00 AM, yet Genji took the key around 0:30 AM.

Genji never considered the possibility of objects being missing in the storehouse.

Genji was not aware he was going to die.

Genji believed he would use the key to enter the storehouse when he took it.

Genji's getting old, sure, but be it an hurry or not, he would have still found the key if it were in his pocket.

Genji would never give in to physical threat.

Genji did not have any knowledge about weaponry apart from tools like the axe or knives that could be used as murder weapons, and that much almost everyone knew or could have guessed.

Genji never retrieved any of the objects found later on the crime scenes

Genji was instructed to do so. However, he would have never obeyed such an order under normal conditions.

No "heir authority" was used to make Genji comply.

Genji is a man of honor

The only will Genji ever followed was Kinzo's, him being tied up and his death were not part of it.

No such material exists.

Genji did not go to the storehouse on a bet.

Genji's death was caused on purpose.

Two keys were found on Genji's body : The storehouse key and his own master key, that Kanon took.

Genji was not in love with anyone !

The storehouse door was perfectly functional.

Genji didn't think he'd be rescued by anyone in particular. He just didn't expect to be killed, and honor had nothing to do with that.

The culprit never threatened to kill any family member that night.

Genji's motive is not related to money.

The culprit didn't threaten to hurt any family member either.

The culprit didn't threaten to kill the servants.

The culprit didn't have multiple personalities.

Genji was very much dead when he was found on the morning of the second day.

When Genji handed the keys to everyone not a word of his concerning what they were and what they opened was false.


Second Paradox

Krauss was not killed after the closed room had been broken

When Kanon went to see Krauss, he only knocked and left as Krauss started shouting to be left alone.

Kanon did not mistake what he heard, what Krauss said was perfectly intelligible.

Well the keys that can open the room are all clear right ? : The numbered key, the two small keys given to Natsuhi and Jessica and the master keys. No more key exist that can open this door

No recorders were brought on the island by anybody.

Krauss was not dying when he told Kanon to go away.

When the corpse was discovered, no one was hiding in room 01

Krauss was alive when Kanon knocked on the door at 10:20 a.m.

Kanon's master key was not used to lock or open the door during this murder.

Krauss was already dead when Natsuhi left the parlor.

No master key was used to lock that door.

No string trick was used to get the key back in Krauss's room.

Natsuhi and Jessica's never handed their regular keys, never lost and were never stolen of it before the corpse was discovered.

The 12 people alive at the time were present inside the room at the discovery of Krauss's corpse. And everyone acknowledged the presence of those 12 persons alive plus Krauss's corpse.

The key found inside Krauss's pocket was marked with the number I in roman numbers, it is unmistakable and none other like it exist.

The corpse I am referring to is Krauss's corpse.

The key was already there when Natsuhi entered.

Krauss died instantly.

Jessica's key was not used to lock or open that door from the point Jessica got into the parlor with the others up to the discovery of Krauss's corpse.

After Natsuhi got into the parlor, she never left it until she went to check up on Krauss

Krauss's death was a homicide

Rosa was successful in getting Maria to come with her, Jessica is then included in the "three children".

Jessica did not leave the parlor after 10:20 AM until Krauss's corpse was found.

When Natsuhi left to notify her husband, the door was locked.

Krauss died of a severe case of axe to the face.

No trap was used to kill Krauss

The key was already in Krauss's pocket when Natsuhi left the parlor.

The window was never broken

The door can only be locked/unlocked from the inside or by a key

No string trick was used to lock the door.

The culprit was inside of the room when Krauss died.

Jessica was in the parlor before 10:20 AM.

Krauss was killed in room 01.

The windows were already closed and locked when Natsuhi opened the door.

From 8:00 AM, when Jessica entered the parlor to 11:30 AM, the discovery of Krauss's corpse, Jessica's key was not used to open or lock the door to room 01.

No living person was inside of the room at the time Natsuhi opened the door.

Natsuhi opening the door and the discovery of Krauss's corpse are considered the same event.

Krauss only died once.

The lock was not removed.

No other corpses than Krauss's were inside the room when Natsuhi opened the door.

The door was locked with a key.

Krauss's pocket refers to the pocket of his pants, and no article of clothing of his was missing

Everyone entered room 01 upon discovery.

Apart from when the door and the windows, there exist no space big enough for anyone to enter in the room.

From the moment they were given their key by Genji until the discovery of Krauss's corpse, Jessica and Natsuhi's key never left their possession.

The key was inside the pocket of the pants that his corpse is wearing

No hole big enough to let the key go through exists either.

Natsuhi only went to check up on Krauss once.

Natsuhi's key never left her possession from 9h15 until the discovery of Krauss's corpse.

The culprit had left by the time Natsuhi got out of the parlor.

No part of the room was removed or destroyed.

It is impossible to lock the window from the outside.

The corpse was found intact except for the wound in the head.


Third Paradox : SOLVED

The culprit never moved Eva's body after she died.

The three master keys were put on a table in the servant's room by Kanon and Shannon before they went to sleep that night, they found it at the same place next morning.

Eva was not bound nor gagged.

Eva did not expect anyone to save her.

The fire extinguisher was there to begin with.

The servant's room was locked at the time of the 3rd murder.

Nor Kanon nor Shannon gave any of their keys before Natsuhi took them the next day.

Kanon and Shannon never stepped inside the kitchen after their supposed hour of sleep until they woke up the next day.

The only other corpses existing on the island at that time were Genji's and Krauss's. And both were in the storehouse when this one was discovered.

The fire extinguisher is working perfectly.

Her life was her priority.

The window of the kitchen is too small for someone adult-sized ( Everyone except Maria ) to enter or exit the room.

Eva died from immolation. The fire extinguisher was in plain view for her when she was set on fire.

No trace of fire was found in the room beside Eva. Basically even though half of the kitchen was burnt, it's only concentrated around Eva's corpse.

The fire extinguisher was perfectly reachable.

Correct, the culprit set Eva on fire from the outside.

The culprit was not holding the fire extinguisher, in fact Eva could access it easily.

Eva was never told or instructed anything about the fire extinguisher.

Eva was not in such pain she could not use it.

Eva did not attack the culprit with the fire extinguisher

Since when were you under the impression that Eva did not reach the fire extinguisher ?
Because she did, she even managed to take it and was holding it.

Eva was holding the fire extinguisher while she was on fire.

Eva did not lose consciousness.

The fire extinguisher contained gas.

The culprit did not lit on fire the room itself.

The fire was started by the culprit.

The wielding torch was not used to light Eva on fire.


Fourth Paradox

Rudolf is very much dead.

Rudolf died within 20 seconds after he had been given the final blow, however he did not lock or close anything.

Rudolf was the one to set the chain.

Rudolf was killed through the opening formed by the chain lock.

Rosa had the three master keys, but the master keys were not used to lock room 1.
Natsuhi and Jessica had the numbered key and both their regular keys but they never out of sight from the group. And they were never seen opening that door until Rudolf's corpse was discovered.

They both woke up upon hearing Shannon's scream, and they didn't found any corpse upon waking up.

They were never seen locking the door either.

Rudolf was alive when they entered the kitchen.

Due to how the group was, there was nothing they could do covertly

Rudolf was not stabbed before they entered the kitchen.

A key was used to lock the door.

The scene in the kitchen was genuine for at least 5 out of the 6 persons.

Natsuhi and Jessica's key never left their respective persons.


Fifth Paradox

Had a chair been placed to block the door, they would have found it when entering, however all the chair in the room were in order and far away from the door.

They'd have found the culprit inside of the room had he done such a thing.

Natsuhi did not lie.

That key did not change hands since Natsuhi picked up.

Same thing as the chair or the culprit blocking the door, they'd have found the key afterward.

The lock was not busted by the culprit.

>> No. 12229 edit
File 137268620359.png - (83.29KB , 372x469 , ros_ikarib3g.png )
12229
Krauss heard something from outside the window. He opened it to check and saw a cute little bunny. The bunny hoped up onto the window sill, and with an axe in its mouth and axed Krauss in the face before hoping out. As Krauss was dying his arm bumped the window and closed and locked it.

Last edited at 13/07/01(Mon)06:45:30
>> No. 12230 edit
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12230
>>12229
Heh.
The window was not closed nor locked by Krauss.
>> No. 12231 edit
File 137268689946.jpg - (312.47KB , 650x880 , 79286.jpg )
12231
Request the following.

"When Krauss entered the room the windows were closed and locked."

"When Natsuhi left the room before heading to the parlor the windows were closed and locked."

"Natsuhi did not touch the window locks."

Last edited at 13/07/01(Mon)07:08:22
>> No. 12232 edit
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12232
>>12231
When it's asked so nicely... There you go.
When Krauss entered the room the windows were opened and unlocked.

When Natsuhi left the room before heading to the parlor the windows were closed and locked.

Natsuhi did touch the window locks.

>> No. 12233 edit
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12233
>>12232
"From the time Natsuhi left the room to go to the parlor up until the discovery of the Krauss' corpse the windows were never unlocked."
>> No. 12234 edit
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12234
>>12233
Heh. I refuse to. I will not say why either.
>> No. 12235 edit
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12235
>>12234
Navy "The culprit was inside the room when Natsuhi just before left."

Request to speak to Natsuhi.

"Natsuhi-san, I know this might be tough, but can you please tell me exactly what condition the room was in when you entered and found your husband's body. Specifically the windows, please give me as much detail about them as you can."
>> No. 12236 edit
File 137268902581.png - (132.37KB , 334x357 , avatar2.png )
12236
>>12235
Request "When Natsuhi found the door was locked, the windows were also closed and locked."

Request definition of 'inside' as in "The windows can only be locked from the inside." Request added statement. "The windows can only be locked by a person who is currently fully inside the room in question."
>> No. 12237 edit
File 131232693884.png - (118.71KB , 441x480 , nat_nayamua3.png )
12237
Natsuhi reappears, still fidgeting.

"The room ? Well compared to when I left there were few differences... Apart from the blood and... The windows were perfectly normal, locked and closed as I had left them when I left the room some hours earlier. As for the rest... The bed nearest to my husband... was Jessica's, I noticed the bed was undone and messy unlike how I had left it, it was also covered with blood. Other than that, nothing had changed."
>> No. 12238 edit
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12238
>>12235
The culprit was not inside of the room when Natsuhi left.

>>12236
I think I had already talked about this one, but whatever. When Natsuhi found the door was locked, the windows were also closed and locked.

Inside as in The windows can only be locked from the part of the window where the latch is located. It being located facing the interior of the room, effectively means that it can only be locked from within.

The windows can only be locked by a person who is currently fully inside the room in question.


Last edited at 13/07/01(Mon)07:49:26
>> No. 12239 edit
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12239
>>12238
And another. "The door to Krauss' room was last locked from the inside."
>> No. 12241 edit
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12241
>>12239
How tiring... I refuse.
>> No. 12246 edit
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12246
So Natsuhi never left the parlor in the timeframe...
...she never handed her key over
but you never confirmed that the key did not leave the parlor...
...only that it stayed in her possession.

So how does one stay in possession of something, but it leaves the room while you're not?
>Jessica and Natsuhi's key never left their possession.
Can you define "possession" for this game?

Uh, maybe Natsuhi's key never left her possession because she indirectly gave the key to someone she trusts. She indirectly gave the key to Jessica, and since she's in the same family to order it never left her "possession".
>The key was already there when Natsuhi entered.
A different key was in Krauss's pocket when Natsuhi entered. The roman numbered key was found when everyone came inside.

Last edited at 13/07/01(Mon)13:13:04
>> No. 12247 edit
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12247
>>12246
Sorry to disappoint you, but The key never left the parlor either.

I doubt you still need that definition now ?

And just what key would that be then ? I did say that the number of keys has not changed, and specified all the existing keys right ?
Well, I'm sure you'll try something anyway, so I'll cut it short. I was referring to the roman numbered key.
>> No. 12248 edit
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12248
Krauss was forced to kill himself. According to definitions of law this would fall under a homicide.
>> No. 12249 edit
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12249
>>12248
Heh, good one, though were it true, it wouldn't solve anything, since I already said that the culprit was inside of the room when Krauss died. But whatever. The culprit was the one to wield the axe into Krauss's face.
>> No. 12252 edit
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12252
Natsuhi only went to check up on Krauss once.

She only left go to check once, yeah. But she killed Krauss left the room and closed the door and then reopened it again and screamed pretending to have just found a corpse.
>> No. 12253 edit
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12253
Natsuhi locked the door with her key before she left. The culprit unlocked the door with a master key and killed Krauss. The culprit locked the door with something other than a key.

In other words, Krauss's door was locked more than once.

>> No. 12254 edit
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12254
>>12252
You guys won't give up with that eh ?
After she left the parlor to check up on Krauss, Natsuhi only opened the door once.

>>12253
Whether or not it was locked more than once, before the discovery of the corpse, the door was last locked by a key.
>> No. 12255 edit
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12255
The culprit was let in by Krauss, they killed him and then locked the door. They opened the window and then tied the bedsheet to the latch, and then george of the jungle swung out the window letting go just right so the window locked and the bedsheet stayed in the room.
>> No. 12256 edit
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12256
Just covering all the bases:
The window can be locked while open and when the culprit was standing inside. The culprit then left and shut the window, thereby making them locked. Or autolocked windows. You only said that for the doors.

Last edited at 13/07/01(Mon)15:23:44
>> No. 12257 edit
File 136338809565.png - (255.03KB , 383x480 , leo_2a.png )
12257
>>12255
The culprit did not use any of the windows to leave.

>>12256
The window can only be locked while closed.

Last edited at 13/07/01(Mon)15:29:44
>> No. 12258 edit
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12258
The door's hinges were adjusted so the culprit could still leave the room.
>> No. 12260 edit
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12260
>>12258
Nor the door nor its hinges were tampered with.
>> No. 12262 edit
new thread
>>12261
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