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16795 No. 16795 edit
Well, might as well, I guess.
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DOWNFALL OF THE GOLDEN WITCH
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This game will function a bit differently (somewhat like the last one, though).

* This game does not necessarily follow Knox or Van Dine.
* Parts I through III of this game contain objectivity regarding the events depicted in it. (In other words, if a character is described doing something in the narration - they really did so.) Naturally, you are free to assume that the descriptions given to you are flat-out lies, but in that case, there is little point in playing the game altogether.
* There is only one culprit.
* The culprit is the one who kills.
* It is not necessary to identify the culprit's identity or their motive to win the game. The most important part is the trick.
* If an accomplice exists, there may exist no more than one.
* An accomplice, if one exists, cannot kill.

* As I am playing on the side of the witch this time around, claiming any supernatural force is behind the murder is not allowed if you wish to ascend to victory.
* As with the previous, game, however, I will try to avoid exclusively denying your theories. Instead, my only tools allowed are the narration itself and reasoning.
* There are three five possible explanations for the problem that is to be presented before you - three four 'endings', if you will:

1. Van Dine's Solution
2. Knox's Solution
3. Nobody's Solution
4. Christopher Nolan's Solution
5. David Lynch's Solution

I would strongly suggest not to take these names as hints, though. They are appropriate for their endings, but for different reasons. Among these three five, one is the true, intended solution. The other two four are simply alternate possibilities. The game ends when the true solution is reached.
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Last edited at 14/09/21(Sun)04:17:30
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>> No. 16796 edit
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16796
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Prologue


"...My dearest Kinzo." The figure leaned back in the chair positioned in front of the desk, calmly looking at the shadow of the man across him, who was speechlessly staring out the window of his own study. As this was a conversation no human could have overheard (the two people made sure of that) - much less the likes such as yourself - it is impossible to fully testify as to the figure's appearance or claim one could clearly distinct their voice. Not even a gender is truly possible to identify at this point in time. "It has been some time. I trust you know why am I here?"

Kinzo, the man who had been staring out the window, sighed. "...Yes. I do. And you chose a devil of a time to do it." The figure merely chuckled at the remark. "You know, however," Kinzo continued, "that I will never allow you to go through with what you intend to do."

"Hmm?" The figure titled their head slightly. "Oh, you are more than welcome to try and stop me, but I'm not quite sure what you could really do at this stage of it all."

"They once told me I was a man of endless possibilities." Kinzo smiled confidently.

"If you say so." The figure brought a cigarette up to their mouth, only for Kinzo to impulsively raise his hand, signaling them not to bother reaching into their pocket for a light.

"No smoking." Kinzo said calmly.

The figure shrugged. "...Sure." The figure proceeded to light their cigarette. Kinzo could only hopelessly watch as smoke slowly filled the room. "No miracle can save you anymore. I have come to take what's rightfully mine."

"And what would that be?" The smile from just a few seconds earlier slowly faded from his face.

"...Your life." The figure exhaled a puff of smoke. They were calm. Relaxed. They had the entirety of the situation under their control.

"And how do you intend to do it? It's only a matter of time for the others to realize what you've done."

"I have a plan."

"Bah. Your plans. You were nothing more than an arrogant brat. Who do you think you are to erase me? I am... I am Ushiromiya Kinzo!"

The frown now fell on the figure. "You say that with such pride, but there's nothing truly honorable about that name. I think we both know that."

"You know nothing!" Kinzo slammed his table. He was now hutched over, staring at the figure directly in the eyes. Like an animal facing its prey. The figure looked at him no different as it calmly stood up from their seat, their cigarette in their hand.

"I know enough." They scoffed. "If there is truly such a thing as a truly pathetic man, you have managed to fulfill every meaning behind the word! Your time is over, old man! Surrender gracefully and your death will be quick! I'll take your body away to the furthest edge of the island and peacefully hand you to the gray sea so that none might disturb you - and all your lies and secrets I shall allow for you to take to your grave! You can consider that may last act of kindness toward you!"

"Burn in hell! I will rather kill everyone on this island than die knowing what you have done!"

"Ah, see?! There is that side to you, Kinzo! There is that evil nature hiding behind your aged face! ...In any case, I knew you'd say that. I was hoping you'd say that, in fact." The figure extinguished the cigarette in the ashtray on the desk.

"Oh? And what exactly did you have in mind?"

"...A death fitting of the 'great' Ushiromiya Kinzo! I shall put you up for display in front of them all! Instead of a glorious death, I'll make it a farce! A joke! Instead of letting you die peacefully and be forgotten like the rest, I will ensure that your death will be looked at and scrutinized for all eternity!"

The figure revealed the antique pistol they had been concealing the entire time. Naturally, Kinzo being shrewd and cunning as he was, knew about it its existence from the moment he looked at the outlines in the figure's clothes.

His eyes widened and he laughed. "Ha! Kill me?! Go ahead! Try it! No - do it! Send me to where I belong! Do it, I say! But I promise you, before this night is over, you will burn in the same fire as I have burned...!"

The figure calmly lifted the pistol to Kinzo's head.

"No. I won't." You might take interest the fact that they let out a little sigh upon saying those words. "...Goodbye."

"I'll see you around." Kinzo grinned.

And the trigger was pulled.

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Last edited at 14/09/18(Thu)14:43:23
>> No. 16797 edit
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16797
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Part I (October 4th, 9:15 PM)



"Well, this is interesting." Battler grinned as he watched Shannon move her white piece on the chessboard. "It would seem that I'm in a bit of a pickle." It did not occur to him until the very moment he had heard that come out of his own mouth how... lame that word sounded coming from him. And surprisingly British.

"I believe the term is 'check' Battler-sama." She returned his grin with a polite smile.

Battler chuckled. "I know how to play the game, you know?"

"Are you sure? You lost the first round in less than ten minutes... this one you'll lose even faster, I believe." She felt no need to be formal around the man. Her shift had already ended, anyway. She was free to act however she wanted - provided she never overstepped her bounds. And Battler chose to treat her like a friend. So there was naturally no issue when she happened to tease him in a way that could be easily classified as 'mother teasing'.

They were alone, sitting in the lounge located on the 2nd of the three floors that the absolutely massive mansion of Rokkenjima contained in its walls. While the room was, beyond a shadow of a doubt, neatly decorated, there is only one component of the room we shall be focusing on for the sake of this tale - and those were the doors. There were two. The first were the double doors leading back into the labyrinth-like hallway of the second floor. The second was the door leading into Ushiromiya Kinzo's study. You might consider this layout to be somewhat bizarre, but everything was built to Kinzo's own specifications. How he intended to actually use the rooms, chances are, he did not know until he had seen the fruits of his labor first-hand.

"Your overconfidence shall be your downfall, Shannon." Battler picked up his king piece and moved him away from the danger that Shannon's bishop had put him in.

"How eloquent." She observed. "It's a shame your king wasn't much of a negotiator. He could've saved himself all the pain." She didn't need to waste a minute to deliberate on what to do next. Battler had, after all, done exactly what she had expected of him. "Check again."
"Hah. No matter." He smirked. "I can still run!"

"Can you, though...?" She was amused, if only slightly. "...Plus, what does running actually achieve, in the end? Isn't it more honorable to accept defeat than be remembered as a coward? After all, victory is obviously mine..."

"...Is that so, huh? Well, that's an interesting way to look at it, I guess. But what if I'm merely waiting for an opportunity to make my epic counterattack?"

"Well, that I'd have to see, then."

"Don't worry, you will."

Battler, for some strange and completely unimaginable reason, had always struck her as the type of individual that was probably told at an early age to smile in the face of danger like a madman. It reminded her of Kinzo. She, however, hoped that with that kind of attitude, he would not turn into Kinzo.

As if reading her thoughts, the devil himself, Ushiromiya Kinzo, in all his faded glory, opened the double doors that lead into the hallway and entered the lounge. Without any word or greeting, he approached the table on which the two were playing chess. Instead of looking or interacting any of them, he looked at the chessboard itself. He studied it.

"Which one... is black?" He asked.

"Er... m-mine..." Battler admitted.

Kinzo smiled. "...Good. That's a good strategy. It's quite a risk and the chances of her spotting it are beyond uncomfortable, but out of all the paths you could've taken, you took the best one. Well done." He nodded in Battler's direction.

Battler was initially dumbfounded by his grandfather's sudden compliment. "Well... Don't you think she'll spot it even faster now that you've told her that here is a strategy..."

"...I was actually bluffing, you know." Kinzo continued to smile. "I was trying to see if you had a decent strategy to explain the frankly terrible state of your pieces."

Battler wasn't surprised by the old man's elaboration. "...Of course. I mean -- of course I do. Who do you think I am?"

"An idiot." He told him.

He faced away from the two and headed towards his study door. As he stood before it, he reached into his pocket and pulled out a small key which he proceeded to slide into the lock. Upon turning the key, the door opened after a satisfying click and Ushiromiya Kinzo entered his study, carefully closing the door behind him.

"...Ass." Battler muttered under his breath.

Shannon, on the other hand, seemed to be focused on the door for some reason.

"...What's up?" Battler asked her.

"Hmm?" She turned back to him. "Oh. Nothing. I was just thinking about that door and how I still haven't gotten around to calling the locksmith."

"The locksmith? What for? Seemed to be working just fine, by the looks of it..."

"The auto-lock is broken." She shrugged. "And he dislikes that. Well - dislikes the idea of people being able to barge into his study at any time. Since he never bothers to lock the door behind him from the inside with the key, for some reason. I mean, it's a stroke of luck, admittedly, since... well, our master keys can't unlock it and he usually refuses to get up and open the door for us whenever we're carrying dinner for him for like ten minutes until he finally realizes he's actually hungry and--" She sighed. "...What a bother, honestly."

"What does he even do in there...?"

"I don't know." She admitted. "I saw a lot of foreign books in there, though. Some of them in languages I'd never even seen. Those I could understand - the ones in English and Japanese - were... weird."

"How weird?"

"Satanic weird."

"I also remember the book he was sent once by someone - probably as a joke. It was called 'How to be a clown'. It was dedicated to Kinzo. He practically punched through a wall when he'd read it."

Battler shivered slightly "...Damn. Guess he really went crazy like they all said, huh?"

"Who knows at this point, honestly?" Shannon sighed. "I'm... just hoping that Krauss-sama will keep me around once he... uh..."

"Becomes worm food?"

"That's... not a nice way to put it."

Battler shrugged. "He started it."

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>> No. 16798 edit
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16798
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Part II (October 4th, 9:35 PM)


"...Damn. That was my fourth loss." Battler admitted with a bitter sigh. The two were still playing their game twenty minutes after they had seen Kinzo enter his study. The atmosphere in the lounge had quickly returned back to normal, with the two trying to outwit each other - both on the board and verbally. It was still just the two of them.

Nobody else had entered the lounge in those twenty minutes.

"I suppose you were wrong. Fourth time really wasn't the charm, eh?"

"Q-Quiet you!"

"You know, you can 'flip the chessboard', as you say, all you want, but you'll still have to actually play, you know."

"Now you're just rubbing salt on the wound..."

"I need to have a little fun, you know." She laughed innocently.

It was at that very moment that it happened. It came with no warning - as it usually did not. Nothing earlier in the day had suggested it, no piece of dialogue or interaction foreshadowed it (well - no piece of dialogue they had chance to witness, anyhow), no strange feeling in the air gave it away and no sound but that of the rain had given them a chance to prepare.

It was a loud, ear-shattering noise. Neither of the two had ever had the chance to hear it in person up to that point, but both of them immediately knew what it was. Their muscles stiffened and they jumped in shock, but their heads were still working just as they had been up to that point. They knew what they'd heard. And they'd heard it come from Kinzo's study.

And what they had heard was, naturally, a gunshot.

Shannon flew from her seat and rushed to the door, grabbing the doorknob and pulling the door with such force that the door slammed against the wall. Battler was only seconds behind her. (From the moment they'd heard the gunshot to the moment they both stood at the open door, no more than 15 seconds or so passed in total.) Upon seeing the sight before them, however, neither of them moved an inch past the door.

Inside lied the corpse of Ushiromiya Kinzo. Next to him, what looked like an antique pistol of some kind - the type you'd usually see magicians use in shows. It should come as no surprise when I tell you, then, that Ushiromiya Kinzo had a bullet hole in his forehead.

Blood had covered most of his face, but its faint, but still visible lines and the clothes said it all - that was indeed the family head, dead in his own study.

"This... what the hell is this?!" Battler demanded as he moved across the threshold of the doorway and approached the corpse.

"B-Battler, wait! D-Don't!" Shannon tried to grab his arm, but he shook it away.

"Let me go! This is some kind of a weird joke!" He was insistent. He crouched, grabbing the old man's right arm, feeling for a pulse. Shannon could see the frustration in his face as he failed to find it. "...Dammit." He sighed nervously. "..:Wait. Wait, no! Dammit, I know this! It's... it's that rubber ball under the armpit bullshit!" His hand shifted to the old man's throat, as he felt around for a pulse there, as well.

Shannon, in the meantime, looked around the room. To the right of the door was a fireplace. There was still fire in it, providing light into the room. It did little to provide heat into the room, obviously. What little warmth they had had completely left both of their bodies at that point. The body itself was positioned in the very center of the room, in front of the desk that covered with numerous books and papers, with Kinzo's head pointing towards the door. Between his feet and the desk there was a single chair. She remembered she'd brought the chair in herself earlier in the day per Kinzo's request. There was another one behind the desk - the one she'd always find Kinzo sitting at. And behind it was a single window (the only window in the room) - which was closed. To the left of the door were three bookshelves, all positioned against the wall. Judging by the dust around them, they had not been moved in some time.

She approached the fireplace. Faint bits of paper could be seen burning away. Whatever they were once, there was no hope of retrieving them.

"Dammit... Dammit, no... This isn't happening...!" Battler's body began to shake uncontrollably. "Come on, you old geezer...!" He felt as if he was starting to cry. But he knew he couldn't. At least, not then. And especially not in front of Shannon.

He picked up the gun. "This... is a fake gun, right?" He examined it to find that the pistol itself could only hold two bullets - and one of them was gone. The remaining one being loaded into the barrel (which meant that, after killing the old man, the culprit loaded the remaining bullet). He glanced back at the old man. "No... Dammit, no..." Upon closer inspection, he also noticed what looked like burn marks around the hole in the dead man's forehead. He'd read enough detective fiction to know what that meant - he was shot at close range. The murderer couldn't have been standing more than a couple of feet from him when he was killed.

Naturally, the fact that the bullet must've hit him smack in the head and that they didn't hear any kind of scream or anything of the sort meant that he had probably died instantly.

Shannon moved to the desk. Papers were scattered all across it. She remembered it was always like that. She also remembered the books. She still did not recall what most of them were supposed to be about. A thought had once come into her head that Kinzo had been writing a novel or something of the sort and that the strange books she had made out before were simply there for research purposes. However, she had never seen a trace or mention of such novel, so she dismissed it eventually. However - something quite uncharacteristic was on it.

An ashtray.

And in it, a single cigarette butt.

She knew that Kinzo did not smoke. At least, she wasn't aware of it. And yet, she realized she could make it faint traces of smoke in the air...

Battler searched the body for clues. For... something. A part of him was still holding onto the hope that the old man was simply playing an elaborate prank on him. That he would get up and any moment and announce his grand deception. The chances were getting slimmer and slimmer, but Battler's hope still remained.

The only thing he found was the key to the room. Which didn't mean much. It wasn't even a locked room murder, in the end.

Shannon approached the window. With a push, the window opened. All she could really see in the distance was the dark sea seeping into the horizon. She looked down. Along that side of the mansion was a passage which led to the guesthouse. There was nobody there. She bent her neck even further - now staring directly down the wall. The mud below that entire side of the mansion appeared to be undisturbed. No footprints, no tracks or anything of the sort. This much she could make out due to the lamps which were placed along the path.

She then closed the window, locking it.

"Was this... suicide...?" Battler asked. "I mean... there's nobody here but us! Nobody could've gotten out without us noticing - I mean, look around! The room is too small! Nobody could even be hiding in here! The window was closed, the gun was near him, we saw nobody else getting in... It had to be suicide... right?"

"It wasn't suicide." Suddenly, a familiar woman's voice spoke from the doorframe.

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Last edited at 14/09/20(Sat)00:11:08
>> No. 16799 edit
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16799
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Part III (October 4th, 9:34 PM)


"...Thanks. I needed a breather." Eva sighed upon exiting the mansion. "As much as I'd love to corner my dear brother some more, Natsuhi's constant interruptions made me feel as I was in a damn cage."

"Don't mention it." Kyrie smiled.

"What time is it now?" Eva asked.

Kyrie looked at her wristwatch. "9:34."

"Good. Then we'll come back at around 11. Hopefully the rest of them can handle the situation on their own."

"I'm sure they'll manage."

The two of them had just stepped out of the mansion after a lengthy discussion regarding the inheritance. Krauss was a stubborn fool as he always was in their eyes, refusing to admit defeat when it was staring him in the face. His siblings refused to allow him to get his hands on the family fortune. Well - they always did - but at that time, it was especially dire.

We're getting off-track, however.

Eva and Kyrie decided to head for the guesthouse to see how their children were doing. Kyrie was not aware that Battler was, in fact, in the mansion. Granted, she wouldn't have cared that much, as the visitation was essentially an excuse to escape the conversation which, to her, was going around in circles.

As the two walked down the well-lit path along the mansion, Eva happened to suddenly stop. Kyrie had to do so, as well, since Eva was the one holding the umbrella.

"What's the matter?" she asked.

Eva was looking in the direction of one of the upper floor of the mansion. Her gaze was focused on one room in particular. "...Father's window is wide open." She simply said.

Kyrie followed her gaze. Indeed, one of the rooms on the second floor appeared to have its window wide open. "Is that strange?"

"... I don't know." Eva admitted. "He is the kind of man who always finds the sound of rain to be distracting in his work. Well, that's what he used to tell me, anyway. He usually either keeps it closed or doesn't go to his study at all on days like these. And the study's supposed to be always locked, so..." She paused. "...Why is it open?"

"...Hm. Do you think someone is in there?"

"I doubt it. Father always keeps the key on him."

"Do you think it's something we should investigate, then?"

"... I don't know. Maybe I'm just tired and paranoid. You know, lately, I've been thinking that Krauss--"

And that was when they heard it.

It was a loud, ear-shattering noise. Neither of the two had ever had the chance to hear it in person up to that point, but both of them immediately knew what it was. Their muscles stiffened and they jumped in shock, but their heads were still working just as they had been up to that point. They knew what they'd heard. Their eyes did not need to focus on the direction the sound came from, as the two of them had already been focused on it up to that point - it was the direction of Kinzo's study.

And what they had heard was, naturally, a gunshot.

The image of the open window Eva saw before the two of them snapped out of their shock and ran right back into the mansion was burned into her mind.

Naturally, when she had seen Shannon opening it as the two of them speechlessly looked at the scene before them, just as the other two people in the room had, and Battler said something about the window being closed, she immediately realized something was horribly wrong.

And speaking of Battler - he was crouching next to the body, his eyes clearly showing signs of tears. "It had to be suicide... right?" He finally said.

"It wasn't suicide." Eva spoke from the doorway. Both Battler's and Shannon's heads immediately turned to face her.

"A-Aunt Eva! Kyrie!" Battler exclaimed. Shannon said nothing.

"Father would never commit suicide. He was better than that." Eva said, confidently. If she felt any genuine grief towards her father's demise, her face did not show it and her voice did not falter. "...Additionally... assuming none of you closed that window - that means somebody else must've been in the room when Father was shot. Look. Me and Kyrie were standing on that path below and saw that window open when we heard the gunshot. Wide open. And don't tell me that the wind closed it or anything like that - I remember those windows and I remember they were sturdy as all hell. You needed to give them a pull yourself or else they'd never close on their own. A person's hand must've closed it! Someone shot Father!"

"But..." Battler rose to his feet, a part of him now appearing to be more intrigued than overcome with grief. "But... Shannon and I were in the lounge the entire time. We saw him get in and heard the gunshot sometime after that. Then we rushed in. He was the only one here..." He looked behind him, in Shannon's direction. "Did the culprit escape from the window, then?"

Shannon shook her head. "It's too high. You can't jump out without... breaking your legs. The mud right below the window looks undisturbed, as well."

"In addition," Kyrie added., "if the culprit had used anything else - like a ladder or a rope - he probably wouldn't have had time to climb out without you seeing him. Even if you're exaggerating when you say you entered the room instantly, neither Eva nor I saw a rope or a ladder near the window. And we were looking at that window, I'm sure of it."

"As am I." Said Eva.

"Then..." Battler looked around the room nervously. "What... happened... here?"


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Part ??? (Date: ??? Time: ???)

Before we begin, allow me to make a couple of guarantees, to ensure that I am forever sealed inside the depths of my own solutions. It would be poor sportsmanship to escape on technicalities or make any last-minute changes to my solution, after all.

* There exist no trapdoors, conveniently unmentioned exits or secret passages inside the mansion.
* To further tighten the noose, the only possible exits and entrances to Kinzo's study are the window and the door.
* There was truly nobody hiding in the room when the door was opened.
* The pistol found inside the room, for the purposes of this game, is the only pistol that exists on the island. It is the murder weapon. It has been fired only once. In addition, the cause of death is the bullet in the head. You might assume this as obvious, but the further I went with these guarantees, the more wordplays inevitably occurred.
* The window Kyrie and Eva were looking at was truly the window to Kinzo's study.
* Naturally, the crime scene described in the narrative is indeed Kinzo's study.
* The window must be pulled from the inside of the room to be closed.

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>> No. 16804 edit
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16804
I'm beginning to think this game was made with the necessity of debate between the reader and GM... that being said I do have a have a silly idea I'll put forward for the sake of amusement. Well, might as well, I guess.

Kinzo was gifted a book that was set up to shoot him when he opened it. Hinted via the story about the 'how to be a clown' and that Shannon admits to many different books on the desk. The cigarette was from Kinzo, while he doesn't smoke he was feeling nostalgic and had some lying around in memory of the good old days, this is also why the window was open in the first place. In other words there was never anybody else in the study to begin with.

The book wasn't actually found because either it fell onto the table being mixed with the other papers and books or into the fire and burned up. Alternatively, or more realistically, Battler picked it up before Shannon noticed it.

>> No. 16823 edit
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>>16804
Unfortunately, your theory doesn't quite work. (Given the silly nature of it, as you said, I doubt you'd be surprised).

For one, say that Kinzo had indeed been shot by opening the book. What happens then? Remember that after the shot, the window of the room had to have been closed and it had to have occured from inside of the room. Since the shot would've hit Kinzo straight in the head, it's safe to assume that he died instantly. So how would the window have been closed then?

In addition, say that the book had somehow managed to flown and get mixed in with the other books (which is highly questionable in itself)- wouldn't the gun have flown with it, too? After all, the gun would've needed to be kept in place inside of the actual book so that, when opened, it fired properly (would be pretty silly if it just tipped over in shipping). Therefore, after being shot, it would've still flown with the book itself. (In other words, it wouldn't have ended up next to the body).

The same can be said in the scenario where it happened to fall next to Kinzo's corpse and Battler took it or something of the sort - it would've still been extremely near the gun and noticed by Shannon (as she herself had a chance to look into the room). However, nothing of that sort was ever mentioned.


Last edited at 14/09/19(Fri)06:54:36
>> No. 16824 edit
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>>16823
Indeed, although you could argue that The force which the gun shot dislodged it from the book and thus separated. It could have also fallen under Kinzo so that only Battler could see it closer up, or was never found at all. Of course this is no where near a 'plan' which goes against the idea that this is murder to be scrutinized by the characters in the first place.

What I really wanted to ask about what in regards to the guarantee about the window. It is said that it must be closed from the inside of the room. That is to say, that only a human who was standing in the room could close the window, and had to be remain standing by the window from when they started to close it and to when they finished.

I imagine that is what you meant, but for the sake of an example, If that wasn't the case, the force at which to close the window isn't anything impossible to apply from another standpoint. While take the narration to be true the same might not be said for character's assumptions. While it may have been unlikely someone was climbing up the with a rope like she said, it could have been possible for them to be sliding down into a room/window right below or being pulled up into a higher one. The window being set up to close from the inside from either the rope, or simply the fact pulling from the inside is delayed and allowed someone to slip by before it full closed.
>> No. 16825 edit
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>>16824
Well, as you say - it is rather improbable for my tastes.

As for your inquiry, it's mainly there to say that the window couldn't have been closed from the outside with a giant stick or... the other incredibly complicated troll theory my tester happened to come up with.

It means what it means, essentially - it needs to be pulled from the inside to close. You are free to claim the possibility of timed mechanism or something of the sort, but we aware that I would in that case ask for it to be described down to the last detail and the reason why it was never found by the characters of the story. (or, at least, some traces that something of that complex of a nature was used).


Please believe me when I say that I have no interest of turning this into a blind guessing game where the objective is to merely figure out the system behind an incredibly complex mechanism. If there are any sort of mechanisms in this story, I assure you that none of them are complex and that they can be reached either through logic or through some kind of a hint in the actual story.

I have shown you all my cards. Your chances of winning will always remain the same.

Last edited at 14/09/19(Fri)09:19:34
>> No. 16829 edit
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16829
I'll give it a shot.

The culprit is Krauss. The accomplice is Battler. Krauss hid in Kinzo's room, smoking until the old man showed up. He shot Kinzo, closed the window, then hid somewhere while Battler and Shannon opened the door. Battler distracted Shannon by making a scene at Kinzo's corpse, giving Krauss an opportunity to sneak away.
>> No. 16832 edit
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16832
Which... which one do I reply to...?

A-Anyway...

* There was truly nobody hiding in the room when the door was opened.

as was stated earlier. And please do not assume that there is some wordplay in my definition of "hiding", for there is not.


Last edited at 14/09/19(Fri)13:27:26
>> No. 16842 edit
I'm interested in how this game can have multiple endings giving how tight the solution must fit. That being said, like your friend I made a few ideas how to close the window most being silly wordplay. However one out of the bunch seems feasible so I am going to try it.

The culprit killed Kinzo and then left through the window and entered a window adjacent to Kinzo's study like suggested in my previous theory. He did not close the window, for he had already set up the room before this in order to close the window.

When Shannon goes to open the door she does so by slamming it up very quickly, this is what closed the window. The culprit set it up so that an object such as a rope was attached to the door and the window; thus closing the window by pulling from the inside.

Now I know what you're thinking, if something like that was done, even if it got pulled off the window during this process, and Shannon hide it herself, Battler would have seen it before she would have a time to hide such a long rope. However if we simply assume said object was made with elastic substance instead it becomes surprisingly possible. The elastic would fling extremely quickly and could easily be hidden by Shannon, or even fly back into the other room away from where anyone was investigating, thus never being found.


It is on the borderline of silly, but for once I think it fits logically into the situation.
>> No. 16844 edit
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16844
>>16842
The issue then becomes the gunshot itself.

Shannon and Battler were at the door in 15 seconds, giving the culprit a limited timeframe to do such a thing. After shooting and killing Kinzo, would he have really been able to escape the room in such a short amount of time - especially considering the fact he would've additionally had to prepare the trick AFTER killing Kinzo? After all, I very much doubt Kinzo would've just stood idly by as the culprit prepared the string/rope.

But even if you were to ignore that, in such a short amount of time - it is quite improbable.

>> No. 16847 edit
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16847
>>16844
I don't see any problem with that really. 15 seconds seems like more than enough time, and given the fact the prologue isn't objective you could argue that Kinzo might have allowed them to set it up as well. Who knows maybe he welcomed death like an old friend, wouldn't put it past him to want to help create a murder mystery.

Of course, if you say improbable then I'll take your word for now.
>> No. 16849 edit
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16849
A very interesting tale you've concocted us again, DWaM, a definitely solid one, but maybe it's solid only if we think it as a single entity. From your previous gameboards, you've shown quite a liking for narrative tricks, as such, you'll excuse me if this explanation of mine is a bit out there.

Part II and Part III are happening on entirely different realities. For proof, a lots of inconsistencies are present between the two.
-First off, the time is off by a single minute between the two.
-Battler is shown crying in the third part while absolutely refusing to do so in the second
-Shannon doesn't see any footprints on the passage to the guesthouse which Kyrie and Eva were supposed to have used.
-In part III, battler says out of the blue "It was suicide, right" without developping his line of reasoning as he does in part II
-Eva hearing Battler say something about the window being closed in part III, which doesn't happen in part II
-Additionally, no mention of any rain in part II
-Additionally, Shannon opens the window with a single push, with Eva's description of them you'd expect them to need more thant just a single push, even if she only says if for the closing.

Thusly so, we have here not one, but two murders operating on slightly different premises.

Lastly I'd assume the prologue is just fantasy or another reality, since in it Kinzo is shot behind his desk, while his corpse his found in front of it, head towards the door in part II


I would want to go further and try to actually theorize the how of it but I'd rather get denied or approved first.

Also you have forgotten a word I assume in Part II : "Blood had covered most of his face, but the its faint"

Last edited at 14/09/19(Fri)19:38:36
>> No. 16854 edit
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16854
>>16847
I'm sorry. I guess I'm just not a believer.

>>16849
Well... that's a solid go, but the

* Parts I through III of this game contain objectivity regarding the events depicted in it.

part was supposed to go against such tricks. But I suppose it doesn't really encompass "the reality is one universe".

In addition, I can't actually deny it with the story itself, so...

In your scenario what would've essentially happened, I assume, is that Kinzo commited suicide or something of the sort in Part 2's world and in Part 3's scenario he was killed and the culprit simply left the room through either the window or walked out the front door (since, if it were an alternate world, Battler and Shannon didn't necessarily have to be there).


Well, I'm always one to reward creativity, so I'll make a new place for your solution.

4. Christopher Nolan's Solution

But for the sake of future theorizing, I will have to say that the narration takes place in a single universe.

And for the record, that typo actually just had the 'the' in there, for some reason. I'll fix it.

(And allow me to remind you that the game ends when the true solution is reached. This is, as you might imagine, not it.)

Last edited at 14/09/20(Sat)00:17:31
>> No. 16881 edit
File 140979405048.png - (211.91KB , 392x447 , try.png )
16881
Kinzo faked his own death.

I can already hear your objections. "But GE, you beautiful devil, the narration described Kinzo as being dead multiple times!" And indeed it does, but what if we consider this death to be metaphorical?

Shannon describes Kinzo as being enraged when he got the 'How to be a Clown' book, but this was only because he realized that his life as a not-clown had been wasted. This is backed up by the magician's gun he kept in his possession.

Starting his new life, Kinzo decided to pull off his first trick-- faking his own death. The narration could only describe Kinzo as dead because Kinzo Ushiromiya, the head on the family, had died and become Clown Kinzo Ushiromiya. Battler couldn't find a pulse on Kinzo's wrist because it was, indeed, "rubber ball under the armpit bullshit." as the text suggested. Of course, Battler realized the truth when he checked his grandfather's neck, but he decided to play along at that point out of respect for the man he once knew. He had to stop himself from crying out of shame for the clown his grandfather had become.

I know what your next objection is going to be, so let me finish. "But GE! The pistol! 'It is the murder weapon. It has been fired only once. In addition, the cause of death is the bullet in the head.'" Well, stop whining. Of course the pistol is the murder weapon. Whoever gave Kinzo that magician's pistol murdered him by making him realize that his identity as a head was worthless and that his true calling was to be a clown. The 'bullet to the head' just adds to the metaphor.

I should also note that it's possible for the narration of a text to be reliable while using metaphor, just like yours does. Unless Kinzo is literally the "devil himself" or the atmosphere calming down really refers to an immutable essence called 'atmosphere' and not Shannon and Battler's mood.

The rest of this tale is simple. Kinzo reloaded the bullet after firing into the night sky then closed the window from the inside.

That's what happened. Kinzo, you clown.


Last edited at 14/09/20(Sat)22:19:14
>> No. 16882 edit
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16882
>>16881
I...

I don't even

It's, uh, not a metaphorical death. Guy's in the room. Shot in the head. Dead 100%. Like, DEAD dead. You know, 'bullet in the head' dead. The 'organs don't work anymore' dead. The kind of dead you want to have a drink with. The kind of dead you want to be your child's godfather. The dead men want to be and women want to be with. The kind of dead that sets a standard for others. The kind of dead that takes and never gives anything back. The dead we deserve, but not the one we need. The kind of dead that says: "I'll be back." in a german accent while it heads off to save the world or some shit, iunno, it's been a while since I've seen the movie, all I know is that Arnold's naked at the start and then things get weird, but the good kind of weird. The kind of weird that only Ahnold can pull off. The kind of weird that defines us. The kind of weird you want to sleep with, but not in that way, because you don't swing like that (or maybe you do, hell, I won't judge).

...

Sorry, what were we talking about again?

>> No. 16883 edit
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16883
That's not so much "using the narration itself" or "reasoning" as much as it is just saying no. I guess we just have different interpretations of the text.
>> No. 16884 edit
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16884
>>16883
Well, I didn't really expect for people to give a different interpretation to a guy with a bullet hole in his head, with no pulse, with a part of text saying "he's dead", and a gunshot of a gun that was fired only once and confirmed to be the murder weapon, without anything suggest that someone completely unrelated was considered to be the actual murder victim.

I'm juuuuust saying that by twisting things enough, you can claim that the murderer was a unicorn prostitute called Mike who actually killed Kinzo with a 360 noscope while in a hot air balloon that was above the island, dismantled the sniper to be left with a gun, threw the gun into the room and then closed the window using his unicorn powers because, well, he's a goddamn unicorn, what else is he supposed to do?

Any mystery can be "solved" by just cutting out the part of the narration that interferes with a solution and then claiming that it never actually happened or that it's all some kind of equivalent to a Umineko fantasy scene. However, this isn't that kind of mystery. Whether you trust me on that or not is, of course, up to you. The entire narration cannot be taken as if it was written with the red truth, of course, but there should exist some level of trust between the author and the reader. Naturally, in the past, I was known to break this trust (here, but I also created some other "gameboards" on another site), but I have realized from experience that there is little point in creating something so twisted in wordplay that it's more of a riddle than an actual mystery - and there is a difference, I assure you.

Last edited at 14/09/21(Sun)02:41:42
>> No. 16885 edit
File 140979570258.png - (211.01KB , 392x447 , well.png )
16885
I disagree. The unicorn explanation broke your 'no fantasy' guarantee, whereas mine did not. It's fits the boundaries of your rules and I'd even argue that it's foreshadowed by a character proclaiming that Kinzo's death will be made into a farce. The whole scene could be read as Kinzo's inner conflict. It's at least as solid as an alternate reality theory and, as I might biasedly argue, moreso.

Anyways, I'm just going to take all of this to mean that the mystery doesn't use wordplay tricks of any form and leave it at that.

Last edited at 14/09/21(Sun)03:51:35
>> No. 16886 edit
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16886
>>16885
Sorry. It's just more of a knee-jerk reaction for me these days, I'm afraid. It could very well be that I'm just bitter I didn't make it as airtight as I had originally believed it to be. I apologize if my response gave an impression of mean-spirited-ness. That is the last thing I wish, I assure you.

I am prepared to acknowledge your solution as valid.

5. David Lynch's Solution
>> No. 16887 edit
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16887
Oh, thanks. Don't get me wrong, I'm fully aware that the theory was silly. I just thought that your dismissal seemed a bit inconsistent. I'm still working to reach a more grounded answer.
>> No. 16888 edit
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16888
I'm going to take another shot, but this time to amend my previous theory, the window was pulled from the inside, however it wasn't physically touched. I will also continue to argue that Shannon opening the door so quickly did in fact close the window, however it was from the air pressure instead of some physical contraption. A common example is in houses when you open a room to the outside sometimes the door will slam shut from the wind flow, or the when closing a door the window moves from cutting the flow; its the same concept.

There was 20 minutes leading up to the gunshot, many a thing could have happened in between that time. Coming up with possible solutions to that part is simple, the main issue is the window.
>> No. 16889 edit
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16889
>>16888
My good man! How can air pressure work in a room with an open window? Wouldn't air just always be replaced and circulate around the room?

And I must admit, I am not quite familiar in what way could opening a door cut off the air flow if the window is still open. Nothing would really change. The window would, I suspect, close easier and faster, but aside from that, I don't think it would have been powerful enough to actually close it, especially given that there exists a distance between the two objects.

And of the example you listed, I am only familiar with the exact opposite - doors being pushed open because of strong outside wind, but actually closing... Your example could work if the house is actually airtight before the door is opened, maybe? I don't know, to be perfectly honest with you, but scientifically, I'm not sure if it's possible to do on an open window.

>> No. 16890 edit
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>>16889
Well it was mainly inferred from my own house's layout. Since Shannon opened it so viciously the movement of the door causes air displacement, thus forcing air to enter through the window as it is the only other source in the room not being disturbed. In turn it could move the window

At the very least it is scientifically possible, the question is whether or not it would be strong enough to move it enough to be considered closed(which by your word seems that it cannot). I'm assuming since there is no actually depiction or detail gone into the description of the window, that 'must be pulled from the inside of the room to be closed' is the only thing we really need to know about it, and whether or not it is awning, hung, slider, arch, or any other type of window doesn't matter.
>> No. 16891 edit
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16891
>>16890
Well, I'm no physicist...

I mean, I have to admit I'm not that much of a fan in having the reader possess external knowledge to solve something. ...Mostly because I'm not exactly confident enough that the explanation will check out in the end (since there's a 70% chance that I'd have to actually kill someone to do so, and that's just... eh, too much work if you ask me). So, for the sake of the argument, we'll say that it's not really that probable in this case.

Anyway, I can easily guarantee you that you possess all the information necessary to reach a logical conclusion in how this crime was done.

Last edited at 14/09/21(Sun)10:17:33
>> No. 16892 edit
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16892
>>16891
Indeed, that was what I was more or less saying. I suppose it just ended up being worded like that since the mystery is so tight. Although I have to say I'm surprised that it doesn't count as another solution at least. You know, with crazy theories like Christopher Nolan and David Lynch solutions being a thing and all, ahaha. No matter.

Considering those theories, maybe Kinzo actually committed suicide with a special gun that auto-reloads. is one of the false solutions as well.
>> No. 16893 edit
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16893
>>16892
Well, as I said, I'm still not entirely convinced that it could be done in this case. And I would prefer to keep as little alternate solutions from popping up (and in this case, I think I can actually claim improbability on an execution level).

But as for your second theory: now, now. Using a gun like that for a solution would be rather cheap and quite unfounded given the information you have in the narration. As cruel as the nature of my deception may be, I am also fair.

And, naturally, it does not resolve the issue regarding the window (as it had to have been closed after the shot).

Last edited at 14/09/21(Sun)10:42:35
>> No. 16894 edit
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16894
>>16893
Well the logic behind the theory was You described it as a magician's gun, thus making one to believe it could have been custom made and thus hinted. Alternatively the gun could be made to not make a sound when being shot, and the gunshot was actually a bullet in the fire place or something else that made everyone think they heard a bullet firing from a gun. Thus allowing the window to be closed after the gunshot had been heard and Kinzo still die in such a way.

Of course I'm unsure if a bullet being set off would be described a gunshot, for while none of the characters seem to have heard one before the narration says that they heard a 'gunshot'.
>> No. 16895 edit
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16895
>>16894
Hm. I see. Well, that's one way to look at it, I suppose. (I don't necessarily approve, but I have no choice, given the limited options you are forced to work with, I suppose).

But then I must ask - why? Yes, yes, you are not supposed to look for motive - but this is a different kind of 'why'. Why exactly would Kinzo do that? Why set off a bullet, THEN close the window and THEN shoot himself? Why even use the loud bullet in the first place? For one, couldn't have known anyone would be outside to behold the spectacle of being spectacularily shot. So why didn't he close the window first and then set off the fake gunshot? And second, following that line of reasoning, why even use the fake gunshot to begin with? Why not just blow your brains out from the get-go? It changes little, in the end.

Ah, but finally, I should refer you to my previous remark:

> The entire narration cannot be taken as if it was written with the red truth, of course, but there should exist some level of trust between the author and the reader.

The "objectivity" of the narration is more focused towards "oh, okay, events happened in this way and in this manner and this stuff is here". You are still free to assume that there is some amount of deception (for example, X being mistaken for Y) as long as it has logical basis (and, naturally, is not something like "oh, the corpse isn't a corpse at all" or "there's a window across Kinzo's window somehow"). You are still allowed some leeway, but again - it should be within bounds of reason.

That said - the narration does not lie to you when it comes to character's actions and the information they receive from those actions. Just so we're also clear. Wouldn't be much of a mystery that way.

Er... if all of this makes sense. What all this essentially means is that the narratoin is allowed to be unreliable on some parts, but never to the point where it becomes illogical, unfair or a flat-out lie given all of the other facts presented.

Just wanted to clear that up before you unnecessarily end up wasting time.
>> No. 16896 edit
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16896
>>16895
---redacted argument---

In any case I understand the deal with the narration, I never misunderstood it really. Those Kinzo theories just happened on the spot upon being questioned. That being said, its more efficient to actually analyze the game rather than just messing around so I'll get on with that in the future.
>> No. 16903 edit
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16903
>>16896
I'm afraid I don't have anything revolutionary this time around. I simply wish to established some minor points and also try a simplified solution.

Kinzo was naturally expecting his murderer based on the chair which had been brought in earlier by his request. Thus the culprit had already been in the study when Kinzo was seen to return by Battler and Shannon. He had been let in before hand by Kinzo, or he had entered through the window as we don't know when or how long exactly it was opened. As explained in the prologue Kinzo and the culprit made sure that nobody could hear the conversation; what they did was write back and forth onto a piece of paper for they knew Shannon and Battler were in the room right adjacent to them. This explains the burnt shreds of paper in the fireplace.

There isn't anything complicated with my explanation of the murder, in fact it is similar to my other theories. The culprit shot Kinzo and then reloaded the bullet as he climbed out of the window, quickly throwing the gun over to the dead body. A simple self-retracting mechanism such as the ones found in tape measures was used to close the window. It was never found because it had been discreetly attached to the underside of the desk where Shannon never searched. How the culprit wasn't seen from the window is the same as my other theories which is quickly entering an adjacent window or ledge.


Ultimately this is once again simply up to your judgement, for it would be simple to find one strong enough to close the window, would take less than a few seconds to set up, and Shannon certainly didn't check there. This being said, I don't think is the true solution, but that is besides the point. I am posting a small diagram of the room just to make sure we have the layout understood correctly (Only Kinzo room is depicted because none of the other rooms were described in depth).
>> No. 16904 edit
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16904
>>16903
(Once again, apologies for the delay.)

I assure you, my solution is a lot more practical and fair when placed in retrospect. It is my firm belief that hypothetical evidence is only fair game when it can either: be deduced purely from the situation alone (in other words, the player/reader should not be forced to guess) OR when there is some trace of its existence hinted at in the actual story (in addition to it being the only logical conclusion). Imagination plays a big part in crime solving, yes, but it should still be applied as a player playing a game. It should not take imagination alone to see through a trick. If we were to leave it like that, we could eventually claim that the solution to a locked room is a mechanism that is both valid mechnically and the fact that it was missed makes sense, but still feels unsatisfactory to the reader because they had never gotten the slightest nod of its existence. "Absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence" and all that, yes?

Naturally, being pretentious like this will do me little if I am proven wrong once the solution is inevitably revealed, but... for now, I will stick to my story that this is still fair.

...

Hm, but yet again, this is not a very good job of properly denying it with the rules of my own game, is it...? Well then, lessee...

- How exactly would the mechanism (that is, the thing which pulls the window inwards) be able to detach itself from the window once the window is closed? It would've needed to been attached to some shape or form to ensure that the window actually closes (since it's a matter of pulling).
- Just like earlier, I'm afraid that I have the question the culprit's ability to be able to escape in such a short amount of time. Again, setting the mechanism up, while in theory wouldn't have taken long, would've still needed to be done in 15 seconds, along with waiting for Eva and Kyrie to get out of the way (the culprit would've had no way of knowing when the door would've been opened, but if he didn't know somebody was outside, he knew that somebody would be any second), thus giving him an even smaller window of time to escape. Why not, for instance, lock the door to prevent this possible hitch in the plan? I mean, if he timed it all wrong, then the entire scheme becomes pointless and he's caught red-handed. If he locked the door, he would've ensured that he had enough time to escape, make sure that the mechanism worked and knew exactly as to the situation happening outside of the room (as they would be stopped in their tracks due to the locked door - which, ultimately, would've given him even MORE time all on its own as it needed to be pulled instead of pushed).
- I had considered including it in the original draft of the story, but I decided against it, as I found it unnecessary. Essentially, the distance between the windows is simply too big for one to simply go Prince of Persia on it. And, naturally, the culprit wasn't simply hanging off of the windowsill - it's a rather poor plan for a criminal to rely on their stamina, especially when someone can always just look out the window at any point. Not to mention there's always the chance you'll fall off and... well, die.

>> No. 16905 edit
File 13286645234.jpg - (96.83KB , 518x827 , ozaki01.jpg )
16905
Alright here are two more theories.


The mechanism was set to break off a tiny piece when it pulled the window shut. Such as a fishing line, thus being hard to see. Changing the theory a bit, the cigarette was used to fake the abrasion ring that Battler thought he saw, forcing Kinzo to be inflicted before killing him. Thus the culprit actually shot from far away, from outside of the room, in turn causing him to have no issue with the 15 second time span.

If that mechanism doesn't work to close the window, Kinzo was in the process of closing it while he was shot, thus it closed after the discovery. This being said I never got confirmation on the layout, for I was confused where exactly the desk was, lets assume that the desk was in between the body and the window, thus ruining this possibility. Of course there is the rare chance of staying conscious for a while after being shot through the head, but that isn't something the culprit could have accounted for.

-

Alternatively, how about I explain the whydunit for that suicide theory I never followed through with. During the twenty minute gap Kinzo was killed without using a gun and then thrown in the ocean, the culprit took his place and killed himself passing his own corpse off as Kinzo. Thus the 'death' was still caused by the murder weapon and a bullet to the head. The reason for setting up the bullet and gun so convoluted is because as stated he wanted it to be a mystery, since he was the culprit. Kyrie or Eva could have been asked to make one or the other see the window as he preformed his stunt.


Pretty sure these will be my last theories, if they are completely wrong feel free to reveal the solution. I think everyone who was interested is stumped as well.
>> No. 16906 edit
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16906
>>16905
1st Possibility: I regret to inform you that there were no teacups found on the scene of the crime. There is nothing across the window that the culprit could've been standing on to line up his shot. In addition, Eva or Kyrie (since there can only exist one accomplice, one of the two must be innocent and thus would not leave out the information) noticed nothing of the sort - and all four witnesses seem to be convinced that the shot occured inside of the room.

2nd Possibility: Unfortunately, the desk is indeed between the window and the body, as you originally assumed.

3rd Possibility: While a valid possibility (although a bit of a stretch), I still dislike... the method of the closing. It just... doesn't feel right to me in the sense that, if I were to accept it, it would be used for the path to the true solution - which doesn't require it, at all. I honestly did not consider this option when creating the game, and it may somewhat be hypocritical of me, but I'm afraid I will have to flat-out deny it:

* The room, the four witnesses (Battler, Shannon, Eva, Kyrie) and the victim were all searched after the events of the narrative - no mechanism (that is, a device) which would've been able to close the window in any way was found. If such a mechanism did exist, it would've been identified as such when found (in other words, no misinterpreting the evidence). If such a mechanism did exist, it did not leave the room at any point after the murder. In addition, there was no mechanism hidden out of view (ie, behind or under the desk).

There is simply no other way to proceed properly without eliminating this possibility, I'm afraid.

>> No. 16907 edit
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16907
>>16906
>teacups
No idea what this is referring to.

In any case, it seems like you were going to deny the suicide theory, but then you denied the other theory about the mechanism instead.

I had assumed the 'flat out denied' was referring to it, but that colon seems to say otherwise. If you could clear this up for me that'd be good.
>> No. 16908 edit
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16908
>>16907
Your suicide theory still needs the window to be closed somehow after the actual suicide is commited.
>> No. 16909 edit
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16909
>>16908
I suppose I was trying to say that it was like my theory in post 16894 in which the gunshot they heard wasn't analogous with what killed him and was created by the culprit to mislead. Thus allowing him to close the window before killing himself.

Although I have a feeling you won't accept that.
>> No. 16910 edit
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16910
>>16909
Well, you've gotten through the 'why' of it, I suppose, but now I have to get to the 'how'. As in, 'how was this other, fake gunshot made'?

And for this, I will require evidence or clues of some kind. By your logic, the accomplice is either Kyrie or Eva, so nothing could've been taken from the scene. Since it was suicide, the person that caused the gunshot must've still been in the room and, thus, logically, the method for producing this other gunshot must still be in the room, as well. The gun was fired only once and no - one couldn't throw another gun from the window that far to have it conveniently land in the water.

Thus, the means to creating this other gunshot, by your logic, should still be in the room.

And yet, there's nothing...

And allow me to assure you that, if I had chosen to do something like this, I would not have omitted it or chalked it up to 'it was missed when the room was searched'. As I said - for things like these, clues should always exist.

>> No. 16911 edit
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16911
>>16910
Well, you could technically make a dry ice bomb made out of paper, or something similar with chemicals(small gunpowder package), thus burning/melting away any evidence in the fireplace where it would have been set off, save a few pieces of paper. I think I suggested that in the old theory as well, just not elaborated much. I'll admit I am really pushing it though.

On a side note, How did your tester(s) fair at solving this anyway?
>> No. 16912 edit
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16912
>>16911
Fair enough. Van Dine's Solution is yours. (It wasn't actually 'random chemicals', as you put it, but close enough - the paper is the evidence I was after, I will admit that much).

Granted, you achieved the solution a bit differently from how I'd planned, but this is equally interesting.

However, for the purposes of the game and further reasoning I must inform you that, in the true solution, this was no suicide. And, naturally - poisoning someone to make them commit suicide or forced suicide still fall into the defition of 'suicide' aka 'killing yourself'.

Oh, and don't know why you needed to include the whole bit with the fake Kinzo and whatnot. Since the Prologue is a meta scene, you can just as easily claim that there is no culprit and that you were dealing with Kinzo's psyche or something of the sort.

Naturally, now that we're back to there being an actual culprit involved... it matters little in the long run.


As for my tester, well - they solved it relatively quickly (if you discount the four days spent arguing over a super-complex theory involving the most skilled culprit of all time (which I ultimately denied with one of the guarantees in the first post). So, I'd say they did pretty well with it. They saw through the deception quickly after that discussion, actually (again, discounting all the times we ended up inidvertenly going off-topic, but I digress).
>> No. 16913 edit
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16913
>>16912
Oh boy that was the answer to one of the solutions eh? Now I am second guessing all my past ideas.

I don't suppose that "It needs to be pulled from the inside to close." would account for someone being able to slip out of the window after closing it from the inside, but not before it was fully closed and then jumping down the wall like Battler in EP5. Like Squitcher said the footprints weren't there despite Eva and Kyrie are said to have walked along the path, meaning perhaps the rain washed them away, or they had been purposely covered up before Shannon could look.

Last edited at 14/09/29(Mon)13:17:11
>> No. 16914 edit
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16914
>>16913
You misunderstand. The mud with no footprints is directly below the window. The path isn't directly below the window, but a little further (in other words, the mud is between the wall of the mansion and the path itself).

That said - no. When I say "pulled from inside", I mean "pulled from inside". The pull has to come from inside of the actual room. Having your one hand in the room while standing on the outside windowsill or something of the sort doesn't count (besides, there would be no reason to do such a thing - you can simply push the window from the outside).

I'm... assuming that's what you mean. I can't imagine being able for someone to pass through a closed window.

And no - scailing down the wall is impossible without the assistance of a rope or a ladder.

>> No. 16915 edit
A question before I start firing off theories:

You had a guarantee that said:

"There was truly nobody hiding in the room when the door was opened."

Can I assume "the room" refers to the entirety of Kinzo's study (that it does NOT refer JUST to the main room of the study, and that it does NOT refer to the room Battler and Shannon were playing chess in)?
>> No. 16916 edit
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16916
>>16915
It's the study, as in - the entierty of the study. For the purposes of the game, assume that the study itself consists of only the 'room' - the one described in the narration. And the defintion does not include the room in which Battler and Shannon had played chess in, no.
>> No. 16917 edit
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16917
In order to break into the room the culprit rigged the window so that the glass/frame could be taken out and replaced with ease, more likely before hand so the crime could take place later. Come time to commit the deed, they quickly entered and then shot Kinzo with, as my other theories have stated, a rigged gun that is silenced; also setting up the gunpowder or what have you in the fireplace at this time.

They had an accomplice on the roof who was in charge of lifting the culprit and the window up with a rope. What Eva and Kyrie saw wasn't an open window, but the space where it had been removed and thus appeared to be open! With those two walking back on the 'well lit' pathway, right before putting the window back the culprit and accomplice saw them looking in their direction so they hid from view on the roof, this was when the fireplace went off. Immediately after Eva and Kyrie looked away the window was quickly replaced before Shannon entered the room. This was hinted by the fact there is even a mystery surrounding the opened and closed status of the window! In other words the window was never even closed in the first place!!!


Last edited at 14/09/29(Mon)18:29:09
>> No. 16924 edit
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16924
Apologies for the delay. I'm afraid I'd grown somewhat detached, yet again. As per request, I will now reveal the solution (s).

There is one central aspect to this mystery that is true for all of these solutions. It is that Shannon is an accomplice and played a major role in the trick behind the window closing.

It was actually something suggested before - there was a piece of thin string connecting the window and the doorknob. The catch was in the way of the room's visualization. The window had to be pushed from the inside, while the door had to have been pulled from the outside. Thus, if the string was tied to an open window and then tied to the door knob, when the door was opened (especially as strong as it happened to be in the narration), the string would pull the window inside and cause the string to snap. One half of the broken string would fall behind the desk and hang from the window, while the other would follow the doorknob. Neither of them would've been noticed by Battler because he had immediately run into the room to Kinzo's corpse, giving Shannon time to retrieve the string attached to the doorknob. She would also later simply pick the other end of the string from the window when opening and closing it. This string is what counts as a force that caused the room to be pulled from inside of the room.

And, as such, the first solution, Van Dine's, becomes rather simple: Kinzo, in an attempt to end his life on a note of grand spectacle (which was hinted at if we assume that the Prologue is simply a conversation inside of Kinzo's subconscious), got Shannon to help him with the string trick. He then entered the room and shot himself right in the face.

The remaining two solutions are also tied together, in a way. It's this: the gunshot heard by Battler and Shannon was not, in fact, a gunshot. Kinzo was already dead at that time and the culprit had already escaped. How was this possible? Well, this is the area where I have to admit I may have misled you while on the subject of mechanisms. While what was used was not technically a "mechanism" in my dictionary, I can understand that not all people would interpret it the same way and for that, I apologize. Another thing that had been brought up earlier was the paper in the fireplace. I will admit that I wasn't that interested in your explanation for it, but the core ones I had in mind were:
A) Gunpowder wrapped in paper which was placed inside of the fireplace (somewhere above) and allowed to burn (either by attaching a string or paper or something) until it reached the gunpowder and set off the shot.
B) A firecracker, functioning much on the same way (a bit of an obscure hint was in that clown's book. Admittedly, not one of my greatest of foreshadowings)
C) Essentially anything along the lines of "the gunshot wasn't actually a gunshot". True, I'd requested some evidence of it (as I did of "contraptions") and I was given the paper, which I wouldn't have requested if every other element of the crime was revealed.

From my point of view, there was no other logical alternative than that the murder had already occurred and that the gunshot had been fake.

So, Nobody's Solution would look something like this: Kinzo got into his study (in which the culprit had been talking at some point before the narration, explaining how the culprit got into the study, Kinzo had left, locking him and then returned later - which is the point the narration follows), the culprit killed him with a muffled shot (using a pillow or something), set the string (Shannon was loyal to the culprit instead), set the timed mechanism regarding the fake gunshot and escaped through the window a couple of minutes before Eva and Kyrie ever stepped outside.

"Ah, but there's a problem with this!", you might say. "If the gunshot had been muffled, would there have really been burn marks?" (For the record, I've just been told that it wouldn't). This is where the final, true solution - Knox's - comes in.

In this solution, the culprit is actually Kinzo himself and the victim is Kinzo's twin brother. He had killed his brother waaaaay earlier during the day (the gunshot was, in that case, not muffled, but simply not heard by anyone due to a multitude of reasons), convinced Shannon to bring Battler in front of the study for the sake of his trick and then entered the study, setting everything up as described before. The hint to this was small, but very important. Remember that, in the prologue, it was the person THREATENING Kinzo that was in front of the desk and yet, when "Kinzo" was found, his body was found in that exact same position. The prologue is actually quite literal - it was a conversation betwene Kinzo and his twin brother, the twin brother pulled a gun on him and Kinzo at first pretend to surrender, but in the end surprised his twin, killing him.

That said, I would've also accepted the other way around, where the twin actually killed Kinzo. The point would be the explanation behind how Kinzo could've been already dead before he was seen entering the office.

>> No. 16925 edit
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16925
>>16924
Thanks for posting.

In the end it seems that everything had more or less been figured out. The inclusion of three separate solutions sure helped you in misleading us quite a bit, but overall the howdunit was made well if we look at it as a single mystery(seems it was actually solved fairly quickly in retrospect).

If there had been a single solution perhaps it would have been more clear... or maybe we're just too used to having the red truth as an absolute. We have to fight in order to prove a theory in your games it seems.


In any case, I enjoyed the mystery. Good game.
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