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File 143975137874.png - (150.74KB , 381x479 , Demille-kun.png )
17978 No. 17978 edit
UNIMPORTANT

"You're joking, right?" Beatrice asked, looking up from the script she was most of the way through with. Upon seeing the expression on Goat-kun's face, though, she looked back to the script. "Of course you're not."

Goat-kun seemed about to reply, when Asmodeus burst into the room. Her hair was soaked in mud, blood, and rain. Her outfit was in tatters, and her face had a look that defined frustration. She stomped into the room and glared at Beatrice silently.

Beatrice smiled back, innocently. "Oh hi Asune! How was your game?"

In reply, Asmodeus grabbed the white bag of gummy candies that Beatrice had brought with her. Reaching in she pulled out a few and jammed them in her mouth. Chewing angrily, she kept her eyes locked on Beatrice. After she swallowed, she poked her finger against Beatrice's collarbone for emphasis as she said, "You and I are going to have a long talk someday about how much you owe me for that little stunt." She turned and walked back out, shouting over her shoulder, "And I'm taking the damn candy!"

Beatrice and Goat-kun blinked a few times at her exit, then turned back to each other. "I mean, don't get me wrong, Goat-kun," said Beatrice, "I applaud the effort you put into this. But I don't think we can pull it off. For one, we don't have any kind of orchestra."

In response, Goat-kun brought her to a side door. Opening it, he revealed the other six Sisters of Purgatory determinedly practicing various instruments.

Beatrice looked in, sighed, and looked to Goat-kun, who was doing his best to not seem like a little kid begging his parents for a toy.

"Alright, we'll give it a shot. I'll get everyone together and we'll start rehearsals immediately.

--------------------------------------------

It was time for the gameboard to go on. Beatrice peeked out into the audience and exhaled. It had been a while since she'd actually felt nervous putting a gameboard out there, but then again this was unlike anything they'd tried before. She remembered everyones' reactions when they'd seen the script. How Kinzo had laughed. How Jessica and Kanon had been unable to meet each others' eyes and were blushing as red as strawberries. How Battler had complained that he only got to have one song and how Kyrie had shut him up with the fact that she didn't get any.

It was a decent script, and a decent gameboard, she admitted to herself. Goat-kun had definitely put his all into it. It probably wouldn't take too long to solve, but sometimes that was alright. She looked to Goat-kun, nervously pacing as he waited for the curtain to rise on his production.

Everyone has their own special brand of magic, Goat-kun, she thought. I hope we see yours tonight.
59 posts omitted. Last 50 shown. Expand all images
>> No. 18432 edit
Accomplices? This simplifies and complicates matters all at once. But before I try to incorporate accomplices into my theories, I have a question: we have only one opportunity to name the culprit each, but what about accomplices? May we make multiple attempts at naming each accomplice?

And does the phrase "does not kill" also refer to inflicting death or harm upon the self?

In the meantime, it's time to test if this is truly a Locked Room Mystery™!

It is possible to lock the door to the Cousins' Room without remaining in the Cousins' Room after the door is closed! Many doors can be locked while the door is open and then shut, with the lock sort of clicking into place after the door is closed. If the door to the Cousins' Room is of this particular nature, then the culprit could've executed the plan previously mentioned with one important change: instead of reentering the Cousins' Room, they simply locked it behind them.

But perhaps this isn't a normal door but instead a Locked Room Mystery Door that can't be locked and closed in such a manner. The answer to this is simple! The culprit secretly possessed a key and was able to lock the door from the outside!

The rest of the blue truth above has not been touched! The deaths of Rosa and Maria can be caused using human means, negating the necessity of witchcraft!


In summary, the new blue truth is as follows: The culprit was already inside the Cousins' Room when Rosa sent Maria there to hide! Battler, Jessica, and George's luggage is in there, so there's plenty of stuff to hide under and behind. There's beds in there to hide under as well, and probably a closet, right? Plenty of places to hide!

Once Maria entered the Cousins' Room and locked the door from the inside, the culprit came out of hiding, killed Maria, and threw her out the window. So Maria wasn't in the room when Rosa entered it. The culprit then re-locked the door and waited for Rosa.

When Rosa arrived, the culprit unlocked the door but stepped back into hiding - the FANTASY section hints at this. Once Rosa was inside, the culprit attacked her, and in an effort to escape Rosa rushed to the window and intentionally jumped out, ultimately ending her life because yadda yadda, can't survive jumping from second floor to ground.

The culprit then quickly closed the window, exited the Cousins' Room via the open door, locked the door without remaining inside the room using one of the methods described above, rushed downstairs, mutilated Rosa's corpse, and dragged Maria's off into the woods (leaving behind a few scraps of clothing like the crown).

This leaves the Cousins' Room empty for George, Jessica, and Battler when they break the lock to force entry.


Last edited at 15/10/27(Tue)22:10:39
>> No. 18433 edit
I'll get back to the Rosa murder if that theory fails.
...
Don't think you're getting a break though.
Genji for accomplice.
Explains the murder in Kinzo's study (he lied/slipped the key to the culprit) as well as how they had easy access to the fortified guest house later on.


Last edited at 15/10/28(Wed)15:21:26
>> No. 18434 edit
Also, are we allowed to theorize that someone is not the culprit, or would that count as our "one chance" to identify the culprit? Or do you simply plan on doing no such thing?

For the record, if I were to theorize that someone wasn't the culprit, I don't plan on simply shotgunning it; I'll make sure to base the theory on the facts in the narrative and the red truths, like anything else.
>> No. 18435 edit
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18435
>>18432
>>18434

"To clarify naming culprits: You can theorize that someone is not the culprit. I am under no obligation to confirm that they are not the culprit using the red. In regards to the accomplices, I shall lay out the following rules: All detectives can have as many attempts as they wish to name accomplices, provided that it is included as part of a full theory that necessitates them being an accomplice. If an accomplice is named without a theory, it does not need to be answered. You shall only get a 'who' with a 'how.' As for what is allowed for an accomplice, an accomplice can inflict harm upon themselves, but only the culprit can kill. Therefore, an accomplice cannot kill themselves in the name of helping the culprit. They can, however, allow the culprit to kill them, as long as it's the culprit causing the death."

>>18433

"As I had not outlined the rules above, I shall answer this theory about Genji. Know, though, that in the future these might not be considered adequate theories."

"Genji's key never left Genji's possession, and neither did Natushi's key after he received it from Doctor Nanjo. Genji did not unlock the door or the windows of the guesthouse for the culprit. And that is how you may name an accomplice, and I may block the theory without removing the possibility." He had calmly chopped the blue into harmless fragments, letting the core idea that Genji was the accomplice fly past.

>>18432

"And now, for the meat of the matter. The door must be shut when it is locked! The culprit did not possess a key for the door of the cousins' room, nor have any way to lock the door from the outside! Two more lightning-fast strikes, and another theory broke.
>> No. 18436 edit
The culprit hid inside the room all along and killed Maria after she locked herself in. They opened the door for Rosa and then hid behind it. Rosa entered. The culprit then slipped past her and left the room without her noticing, then rushed to Maria's corpse. Rosa locked the door and jumped out the window, presumably because she saw Maria getting dragged away or something.
The wind closed the window.


Also, I take it if we somehow just need a specific person to have done something they could have done as both the culprit or an accomplice, we can simply make that theory without specifying in what way they're involved exactly?

Last edited at 15/10/28(Wed)21:45:24
>> No. 18437 edit
So it IS a Locked Room Mystery Lock...

First a theory on who ISN'T the culprit, although I realize I may not get it either rejected or confirmed.

The culprit is NOT Gohda. It was declared in red that the culprit is someone Battler knows well. However, Battler incorrectly judges Gohda as a coward and must be corrected. Also, I don't think Battler's met Gohda before, or he's at least not seen him in years. Basically, Battler doesn't know Gohda well at all.

Additionally, Gohda's head was chopped off and moved to another room. Seeing as the culprit had to inflict all deaths themselves, the possibility of an accomplice moving the head for them and then offing themselves seems very slim while moving the head on their own would be an impossibility.

We can therefore safely rule out Gohda as a culprit at this time, unless it becomes more advantageous to us for him to be the culprit later! Because we're wishy-washy like that!


Enough of blues that will probably be ignored, though! This room will break before I do, even if I have to theorize that it was disassembled and rebuilt!

Hey, that's not a bad idea.

The culprit hid inside the room before Maria entered. Maria entered, locked the door, the culprit killed Maria. The culprit tossed Maria's body out the window. Culprit waits for Rosa to show up, she does, culprit unlocks the door, lets her enter on her own, then attacks her. Rosa leaps out the window to escape, only to die. The culprit then closes the door, locks the door, and then takes the door off its hinges using normal tools. Once the door is thusly removed, the culprit stepped outside the room and put the door back on its hinges from the outside. The door was therefore shut when it was locked!

Alternatively, instead of the door being deconstructed, the culprit deconstructed part of the wall, exited through there, and then rebuilt it. The cousins didn't notice any changes because they were too stressed out about a killer running loose!

FURTHER alternatively, the culprit deconstructed part of the floor and exited to the ground floor through there and then reconstructed the missing floor.

FURTHER further alternatively, the culprit deconstructed part of the ceiling and roof and exited to the roof through there. There they reconstructed the missing roof and ceiling, moved to the roof above another room, and then deconstructed the roofing and ceiling there to enter through to this other room with an unlocked door. Of course, the culprit reconstructed this part of the ceiling and roof as well.


I take it back, this was a terrible idea.

Still gonna use it, though.

Hm... I'm going to ask you to confirm one more thing for me. Something from what you said about my magic theory doesn't... sit well with me.

The culprit used strictly human means to commit this crime. Failing that, it was at least POSSIBLE to use strictly human means to commit this crime, even given all possible red truths in this gameboard, past, present, and future.

Oh, and one more thing that might actually be important:

Every lockable door on Rokkenjima must be closed in order to be locked.

Every lockable door on Rokkenjima can be locked and unlocked from the inside without a key.

Every lockable door on Rokkenjima can be locked and unlocked from the outside ONLY with a key.


Juuuuuust double checking.

Last edited at 15/10/29(Thu)05:33:42
>> No. 18438 edit
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18438
>>18437

I kind of ruled him out because Gohda killed no one in this game, but that works too.
>> No. 18439 edit
Oh right

...

dang

...

Wait, here's a better one!

Neither Genji nor Dr. Nanjo are the culprit! The culprit had to inflict all deaths themselves. If one of them was the culprit and killed themselves, it would be necessary for an accomplice to slash and mutilate the body postmortem. But then how does the culprit kill the accomplice? The chances of that being possible are EXTREMELY slim. Because the red truths make it implausible for either of them to be the culprit, we can safely consider Genji and Dr. Nanjo to be innocent (at least for now)!

Last edited at 15/10/29(Thu)05:38:00
>> No. 18440 edit
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18440
>>18436

"A commendible, sensible theory. More so because your friend seems to be running out of them. Yet they are as fragile as flowers, and as easily plucked. What will you do when the field is barren? The culprit did not sneak past Rosa before she locked the door. As for your question about naming a person, you can name them in the theory if it does not involve them causing a death. If it does, then they would be the culprit, and it would be you naming them as such."

>>18437
>>18438

Goat-kun was about to reply, but then the other detective pointed out the red that was already stated. "As stated. As for the rest, I feel insulted at the mere insinuation that I would make such an unfair game! I am no low charlatan who would do such things in order to win!"

"However, I understand the need to clear all possibilities in this sort of game, so I shall humor you this time."

"No doors, walls, floors, or ceilings were deconstructed and then reconstructed during the course of this game. To do so in an undetectable fashion in the allotted time would be impossible. The only damage done was caused by the explosion in the basement."

"It is possible for a single culprit and no more than two accomplices to have committed this crime, sticking to the red truths outlined in this gameboard. This includes the red presented during the game itself, the red presented currently, and any further red I may give. It also includes everything described in the MYSTERY sections."

"Every lockable door on Rokkenjima can be locked and unlocked from the outside only with a key. Every lockable door on Rokkenjima can be locked and unlocked from the inside without a key."

"The only lockable door that can be 'set' to lock while open is the door to Kinzo's study, which has an autolock mechanism that under normal circumstances will make the door lock any time it is shut, whether or not anyone actively tries to lock it. It must be unlocked from the outside with one of the two existing keys, or from inside."

>>18439

Seemingly out of spite, Goat-kun spit out, "You are forgetting a few things. In this particular closed room, it could have been possible for one of them to be the culprit, kill the other, mutilate themselves, dispose of the weapon, and then die of exsanguination, as both of the deepest gashes occurred in non-vital areas."

Goat-kun's blue theory formed itself into a familiar blade on his arm, which he used to slash at the incoming blue truth. They struck together and negated each other, both currently being valid.

"If you admit that you are stuck on the second Twilight, you could try the others and come back to this one. After all, there is only one culprit."

Last edited at 15/10/30(Fri)22:35:17
>> No. 18441 edit
Not being stubborn has cost me in the past, but I guess in this case it's mostly just postponing the issue (who knows, maybe the other detective will have dealt with it). I'll see if I can clean up the others first.

The culprit rigged the door to Kinzo's study so it'd stay open. It was only after that that they put Natsuhi's key back on her corpse. They then later returned the door to autolocking properly and stayed inside Kinzo's study. This presumably happened after the second twilight, during which they placed a note to lure Jessica there later. When Jessica arrived, they unlocked it from inside and killed her, hiding her body for unknown reasons.

...And now for some fun things you probably don't have to deny, unless they count as theories for Battler's murder or are just things you want out of the way.

Kanon - just as stated - isn't even on the island, leaving room for an extra human.

Kanon doesn't add towards the count of humans on the island (you know, the usual reasons), leaving room for an extra human on the island.

>> No. 18442 edit
I will admit that my last theory was definitely stretching it, but you forced my hand by crafting such an impressive locked room. I'm not giving up on it, though!

You said that Maria wasn't in the cousins' room when Rosa entered it, but I'm wondering if it's possible I allowed this to mislead me. My new theory is that neither Rosa nor Maria's deaths were murders.

Maria knew more about the present situation involving a mass murderer than she let on. Her eerie references to Beatrice foreshadow this - what she knew about the possibility of a mass murder taking place she attributed to the manipulations of the Golden Witch Beatrice. This knowledge is what motivated her tragic actions that night.

EDIT: For now, I don't think it's necessary to get into the specifics of why Maria did what she did. Let's just say she had her reasons. But what DID she do? Well...

When Rosa came to check on Maria, Maria was still inside the room. She unlocked the door but didn't open it, just as the FANTASY section hinted. Once the door was unlocked, Maria rushed to the window and jumped out intentionally, ending her own life because no one can jump from the second floor of the guesthouse to the ground and survive. This was done before Rosa realized Maria wasn't opening the door and so before she had a chance to open it and actually ENTER the room. So by the time Rosa entered the room, Maria was not in it. She was outside.

Rosa then entered the cousins' room and locked it behind her from the inside out of habit. Gotta keep the crazy murderers from getting in, right? She quickly realized that Maria wasn't inside, and then she saw Maria on the ground through the window. One of two things happened there: either Rosa in a panic leapt out the window to try and reach Maria as quickly as possible (the FANTASY scene provides a very nifty parallel to this idea), or Rosa followed her daughter's example out of despair.

The culprit later came across Maria and Rosa's bodies. The culprit mutilated Rosa's body (didn't get a chance to kill her so might as well) and moved Rosa's for their own unknown purposes.

The wind/weather closed the window.

On the whole, a very depressing theory. However, it enables the door to be locked once George, Jessica, and Battler arrive, the door is locked when Rosa arrives earlier, and Maria isn't in the room when Rosa enters the cousins' room. Furthermore, while you said that the culprit is the one who kills in red, you did not say that every death involved someone being killed directly or indirectly by the culprit. So suicide is not out of the question.

The deaths of Rosa and Maria are possible without magic! There need not be any Golden Witch!


Also, there's something I didn't quite get cleared up. You stated in red that it is possible for humans to have committed this crime. However you did not say that it was possible using human means. So if I may check that again...

The culprit and accomplices used strictly human means to commit this crime. Failing that, it was at least POSSIBLE for them to use strictly human means to commit this crime, even given all possible red truths in this gameboard, past, present, and future.

In other words, these deaths CAN have taken place without the involvement of magic.


Also concerning your refutation of my blue about neither Genji nor Dr. Nanjo being the culprits...

While you are right that the culprit could've killed the other and then themselves, there remains a problem! Battler was still alive after Genji and Dr. Nanjo were dead (this was indicated by the MYSTERY narration). Battler was also shot by the culprit (that was stated in red). Because the culprit must still be alive to kill Battler, neither Genji nor. Dr. Nanjo can be the culprit.

While I can buy the possibility that Battler might've missed one of them still being barely alive, one must recall that Battler then spends the next several hours (from a little after mid-morning to mid-afternoon) writing documents that the police find. I find it very hard to believe that the culprit could last so long after mutilating themselves and still find the strength to confront Battler and win the ensuing fight.


Last edited at 15/11/01(Sun)08:54:54
>> No. 18451 edit
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18451
>>18441

The blue streaked in, and though a couple body blows connected, Goat-kun managed to block the hardest hits. "A good theory. I will give you this: The culprit placed a note in Jessica's things to lure Jessica to Kinzo's study. This was done in the same timeframe as the second Twilight. However, Natsuhi's key never left Natsuhi's possession until her death, at which point it passed to Genji after being carried briefly by Doctor Nanjo. I can also say that the culprit did not unlock the door for Jessica when she came to the study."

He grinned at the blue theory about Kanon, and nodded. "It's true that I need not deny it, but it is a valid point. As you say, I would not mind getting it out of the way. Kanon did nothing to earn him blame, because at the time of the beginning of this gameboard, he no longer existed. Shannon and Kanon were the same person, but only Shannon remained by October 4th, 1986."

"To clarify, then, the living humans on the island at the start of this gameboard were as follows:

Krauss
Natsuhi
Jessica
Eva
Hideyoshi
George
Rudolf
Kyrie
Battler
Rosa
Maria
Genji
Kumasawa
Shannon-who-was-Kanon
Gohda
Nanjo

Kinzo died two years ago, but his corpse was present.
However, despite the fact that it leaves room in my initial count, these are the only humans that were present on Rokkenjima on October the 4th and 5th of 1986.
"

>>18442

"A good theory from you as well. Much better than the previous. However, Maria did not commit suicide. To be clear, Rosa did not commit suicide either."

"It is possible for a single culprit and no more than two accomplices to have committed this crime, using purely human means and sticking to the red truths outlined in this gameboard. This includes the red presented during the game itself, the red presented currently, and any further red I may give. It also includes everything described in the MYSTERY sections."

Goat-kun considered the new theory about Genji and Nanjo carefully, then nodded. "Your reasoning is sound. I could argue that Doctor Nanjo, with his medical knowledge, would be able to make it seem like his wounds were much more severe than they were, but that would be stretching credulity. What is more, their identities were not difficult to discern in any way, so even Battler could positively identify them. If the culprit made no effort to conceal their identities, I shall not either. Neither Genji nor Doctor Nanjo are the culprit."
>> No. 18452 edit
Ah, the old Shkanon trick. Or however that's spelled. But it's of no concern to me, at least not until I crack this locked room. Have two different blue theories, one absurd, and the other only slightly less so!

Also, thanks for confirming the possibility of human means. Just wanted to make sure, y'know? Can't have any magical golden pocket watches throwing us off, right?

When Jessica shot the lock to the cousins' room, the narration says "The room looked like it had previously, aside from a new hole in the floor several feet away from the door where Jessica’s bullet had impacted." While it has been said in red that there was no destruction of architecture followed by reassembly by the culprit, there does seem to have been some damage done to the Rokkenjima property.

The exact size of this "hole" is never described, and the precise nature and capabilities of Jessica's gun aren't explained by the narration either. Therefore, it is possible that the "hole" described by the narration was large enough for the culprit to escape through! With this assumption in mind, the events as they took place are very clear!

The culprit was already hiding in the cousins' room when Maria locked herself in as per Rosa's instructions. The culprit killed Maria then, probably disposing of her body and cleaning up the scene of the crime before locking themselves in the cousins' room again.

Rosa then showed up. The culprit unlocked the door and allowed Rosa to enter, only to attack her, leading to her trying to flee by leaping out the window, only to die on impact with the ground as the red states would happen. The culprit then went downstairs out the open door, mutilated her body, went back upstairs to the cousins' room, and locked the door behind themselves, locking them in the cousins' room.

The culprit's original plan was to lay in hiding there, but their plan had to change when Jessica, George, and Battler came and shot the lock. Their act of shooting the lock informed the killer that they were armed, and so the culprit realized that they had to retreat and regroup, so to speak. Fortunately, Jessica's shot left a convenient hole in the floor they were able to escape through before the three cousins could enter the room!

The door was locked when Rosa knocked on it! No one was still in the room when the three cousins entered it! The door was actually locked when the three cousins came to it!

That is how the culprit caused Rosa and Maria's deaths. No witchcraft is necessary!


However, I do find it hard to imagine that this is the true solution. What kind of gun would Jessica have to have carried?

But perhaps the solution involves a little more hardware of a different nature?

While the culprit did not secretly possess a key to the door of the cousins' room and it's only possible to lock the door without a key from the inside, it is not necessary to be in the room to lock it from the inside.

The culprit did the usual. Was hiding in the cousins' room when Maria locked herself in, killed Maria, disposed of her body, locked themselves back in the cousins' room, opened it for Rosa, tried to kill Rosa only for her to try and escape through the window, dying on impact.

The killer then set up a mechanism, probably made of string or thin rope, by which they could pull the lock on the cousins' room door and lock it. They set this up, arranged the string so it trailed out the window to the ground, and then exited the room, closing the door.

The culprit went outside and used the string/thin rope mechanism they had prepared to lock the door. The mechanism was also designed such that it could be yanked and undone, allowing the culprit to pull the string/thin rope out the window, removing all traces.

The culprit mutilated Rosa's body, and the wind/weather closed the window.

Alternatively, if a mechanism that can be disposed of in the manner described is impossible, it was instead destroyed when Jessica shot the lock on the door.

With this possibility in mind, the existence of a witch is unnecessary for these deaths to have taken place!


There we are. And if you don't like them, hey, you're the one who designed such an impregnable locked room. I've got a few more items of business, though.

Heh heh heh...

Neither George nor Kumasawa are the culprit! It was stated in red that they were killed as Battler assumed, which is to say that they were at least dead after the fire was put out. Since the culprit must be alive to shoot Battler, neither of them can be the culprit, as they were already dead when Battler was killed!

Jessica is not the culprit! There are two reasons. It was stated in red that she was killed in Kinzo's room. The presence of blood there suggests that this happened well before Battler was killed, meaning that Jessica was not alive to shoot Battler at the end. By that reasoning, she cannot be the culprit! However, it is also possible to interpret the red differently, supposing that she was killed by herself in the room after shooting Battler and that the blood was from some other death. However, it was also stated in red that the culprit left a note for Jessica to lure her to Kinzo's study. If this is true, then it makes no sense for Jessica to be the culprit, as she would have no reason to lure herself anywhere!

Maria is not the culprit! She's nine and far too small to overpower anyone else on the island in a confrontation.

Rosa is not the culprit! It was stated in red that she definitely did die after jumping into the storm, so she wasn't alive to kill Gohda, Nanjo, Genji, or Battler at the least.


In retrospect, these all seem kind of obvious, but I think it's still good to get this taken care of, if possible. Furthermore...

It is possible Shannon wasn't dead when Battler found "her body" in the shed. He only recognized her by her eagle tattoo, maid outfit, and "ample bosom," as Battler puts it. However, there is no guarantee that no one else had a similar tattoo or something that looked like a tattoo, and the vague qualifications of general body shape and clothing are insufficient to accurately identify a body. Shannon might've still been alive!

I just realized that Shannon being Kanon somewhat complicates the idea of corpse switcheroos. Since Shannon is Kanon, in this gameboard does Shannon have a biologically male body or a biologically female body? Or do you not plan on telling us either way? Additionally, how thorough was Dr. Nanjo's analysis of the corpses in the parlor?

For the record, the culprit was one of the following individuals:

Eva
Kyrie
Natsuhi
Hideyoshi
Rudolf
Krauss
Shannon
Battler (or perhaps more accurately, a witch-like personality in Battler's mind)

No one else could've been the culprit!


Wait, wait, wait. If I theorize that the culprit is one of a group of people, does that count as naming the culprit?

Last edited at 15/11/01(Sun)18:04:23
>> No. 18458 edit
I suppose it's true that Jessica heard no sound of the door unlocking, so I could have seen that coming.

The door to Kinzo's study was manipulated in advance to stay open. The culprit didn't necessarily need possession of the key. Genji or Natsuhi opened the door for them. It might be sufficient for one of them to just unlock it and walk away. (if the autolock is only triggered when you actually open and close the door after unlocking it)
If that doesn't suffice, the culprit did something to the lock to temporarily jam it. (this wouldn't necessarily make one of Genji/Natsuhi an accomplice as it could have been done in secret while the door was open)

Therefore the culprit didn't need to unlock the door for Jessica - it was already open.
After Jessica opened the door, they followed her inside and killed her. They then had the door lock itself and hid the body somewhere. (Maybe gold room. But anything works.)

>> No. 18463 edit
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18463
>>18452

Goat-kun batted the new theories away like they were minor annoyances.

"The hole left by Jessica's bullet is small, and insignificant to this gameboard except to prove that she really did shoot the lock."

"As stated previously, the culprit did not have any way to lock the door to the cousins' room from the outside. This includes mechanisms, contraptions, and tricks that would allow the culprit to lock the room while standing outside of it."

After blocking the two large blues that came at him, one managed to slip past and strike his side. He flinched, and nodded. "I will confirm it: As Battler did not examine the corpse he believed to be Shannon closely, it is possible that he misidentified the remains."

" As for your theorizing about who isn't the culprit, I invoke my previous red truth: You can theorize that someone is not the culprit. I am under no obligation to confirm that they are not the culprit using the red. Believe what you will about those whom you have named innocent, if you think your reasoning sound. In regards to saying that the culprit is one of a group, I decree that players are allowed to theorize that a culprit is one of a group, but the mystery is not solved unless one in particular is named as the culprit, and I am under no obligation to confirm or deny the theory with the red. In essence, you are free to think out loud, but I need not comment on it."

>>18458

As he was considering the new rules, he only just barely noticed the new blue strike coming from the corner of his eye. Although it clipped him, he managed to throw up a hasty block. "The culprit did not follow Jessica into Kinzo's study!"
>> No. 18464 edit
I hope you didn't think that would be enough to fend me off.

The culprit was already waiting for Jessica inside the room then.

Both theories are still possible with this:

In the version where they used something to block the lock, they simply didn't undo it until after killing Jessica (I'm assuming this wouldn't contradict the red about the culprit not opening the room for Jessica. If it does, there's always the option that one of their accomplices set it up for them)

In the version where the door was left unlocked but not opened, thereby not triggering the autlock mechanism, there's a small timeframe in which this could have been done, too:
When the cousins were away discovering the second crime, Genji could have gone upstairs, let the culprit enter the study, and leave the door unlocked.


Last edited at 15/11/03(Tue)10:39:33
>> No. 18465 edit
It's true you're under no obligation to respond to all questions. But I know that you are an honorable fighter, Master Goat, so you'll surely respond to a blue truth of a similar subject?

Dr. Nanjo responsibly examined the six original victims' corpses thoroughly and would've noticed anything obviously off about them. As such, it is important to consider who our only possible "fake body" is.

Shannon plays an important role when it comes to obscuring the identities of victims. Shannon is the only individual to go missing early on and is thus the only "spare body" available to fake someone's death in the first twilight.

Kinzo's body cannot be used to fake anyone's death. He is not only much older than everyone else on the island, but he also has six toes on each foot, and that's a trait no one else on the island possesses.

You have stated that Shannon is Kanon. Because Shannon is Kanon, Shannon's body is actually biologically/superficially male, and Shannon's female attributes are prosthetic.

With this in mind, we know something very important: Shannon's corpse couldn't have been used to fake the death of Natsuhi, Kyrie, or Eva, as Dr. Nanjo would've quickly realized that the body was male rather than female.

Neither Natsuhi, Kyrie, nor Eva can be the culprit, as they were dead from the start!


There's a fun one, though I might be making too many assumptions. But it doesn't quite break our locked room, does it? I've been leaving out accomplices for awhile. Maybe it's time I involve one?

Genji is an accomplice to our killer! Their plan was as follows:

The culprit was hiding inside the cousin's room before Maria locked herself in per Rosa's instructions. The culprit kills Maria somehow and then disposes of the body, perhaps by throwing it out the window for Genji to dispose of, maybe by just unlocking the door and carrying her to the woods themselves. Either way, once Maria is disposed of, the culprit locked themselves back into the cousins' room and waited for Rosa.

When Rosa arrived, they unlocked the door and allowed her to enter on her own. Once she was inside, the culprit attacked, and Rosa fled out the window in an attempt to escape, only to fall to her death. The culprit then closed the window, stepped outside, and closed the door.

This is where Genji truly comes in. He had a key, so he locked the door for the culprit. Genji then returned to the mansion to meet up with everyone else. The culprit then mutilated Rosa's corpse.

Keep in mind that he didn't keep pace with the cousins! He ran after them "as fast as he could manage" from Rosa's perspective. Perhaps it took him so long to catch up because he doubled back to help his co-conspirator kill Rosa?

That is how Maria and Rosa died! Magic is unnecessary for this crime to be possible!


Tada! Though this reminds me of something. There's a blue truth we've been using a lot, but I don't remember if it was ever confirmed or denied. I suppose you can always refuse, Master Goat, but couldn't you do us the honor of response?

Let us not look at Maria and Rosa's death as a single crime, but two. I will now theorize as to how Maria died.

The culprit was already hiding in the cousins' room when Maria locked herself in the room. Once Maria locked herself inside, the culprit killed Maria.

The locked room was never locked for the culprit at all!


And there's something I can't quite figure out from reading the narrative and the red, so I'll say it in blue.

There are two master keys to the mansion on the island. No other keys to any doors or windows on the island exist.

That's how it is on this board, right?

As I see it, we've eliminated the following as culprits:

Rosa
Maria
Kumasawa
George
Jessica
Genji
Dr. Nanjo
Gohda
Kanon-who-doesn't-exist-anymore
Kinzo

Which leaves us with only a relative handful. Hm...

Last edited at 15/11/03(Tue)18:52:52
>> No. 18466 edit
While I'd agree with that list... I'd still be careful with some names until we have a better picture of the howdunnits. But for completion's sake... ruling out Battler is a pretty safe bet.
The only way the scenes at the end would still make sense with him as the culprit would be convenient amnesia (heh...) or split personalities. Even if we DID assume that he kept up the act while nobody was watching him (which is already pretty far-fetched), we get quite a few of his inner thought processes in MYSTERY segments. Now, I'm assuming 100% fact means that it's not just 'an interpretation based on observation', but fact. So if a character is stated to be surprised or make a guess, they're actually surprised or guessing. (on the other hand, if they only 'seem' surprised, it could be taken both ways. And there are also lots of instances where it's heavily implied a statement is just what the people in the scene are assuming to be the case, so that ending up wrong would probably still be fair as well.)
Then again, maybe I'm not supposed to take it that literally, but Battler faking all of that at the end for no real reason would still be pushing it.

Last edited at 15/11/04(Wed)13:29:11
>> No. 18467 edit
>>18466

You've got a point about being careful until we're sure how people were killed. For Battler, though, I never thought that he was acting. If he IS the culprit, it's a case of split personality. Some sort of witch-like personality residing in Battler's mind without his knowledge.

It's still pretty unlikely just because of how absurd it is, but he makes for a really convenient culprit. Especially at the end: the red states Battler was shot by the culprit from close range. What better way to be shot from close range by someone than to, well...

Then again, he seems to have been with George and Jessica in the guesthouse at the time of the first twilight, so I suppose it's also safe to rule him out by virtue of alibi, regardless of split personalities.

Last edited at 15/11/04(Wed)13:42:57
>> No. 18468 edit
Did you solve this yet? I still think Rosa is the culprit.
>> No. 18469 edit
No solution yet. We got kind of stuck on the second twilight. I'm still trying to crack it while Rune is focusing efforts on Jessica's murder. I'm getting the feeling Rune's close to figuring out how the killer got Jessica, though.

As for Rosa, isn't she kind of... dead for that? It's also been said in red that she didn't commit suicide, so her coming back to the guesthouse later to jump and die after killing Battler isn't an option either...

>> No. 18470 edit
File 144669205086.png - (7.58KB , 54x54 , erune.png )
18470
The culprit convinced Maria to play a halloween prank on Rosa.
After unlocking the door for her mother, Maria rushed to the window, standing kind of on the ledge outside so it doesn't count as her being in the room.
Rosa gets inside and locks the door, then sees Maria. This is when Maria jumps... Rosa quickly rushes over and jumps after her, catching her in mid-air. The two of them land on the culprit, who initially wanted to just catch Maria.

Rosa jumped into the storm. However, she landed on a person, not the ground. Since you're only guaranteed to die if you jump from the window straight to the ground, the two of them survived the fall. The culprit was knocked out as a result. After realizing the situation, Rosa decided to just escape the island and went off with Maria to find a boat.

When the culprit came to, they decided to not bother and just fake the death of the two using another corpse (Shannon maybe) and Maria's crown which she lost during the fall.

Rosa is alive and still best mom.


Why am I doing this
Easy.

Last edited at 15/11/04(Wed)18:54:11
>> No. 18471 edit
There's no red for Rosa being dead, just a lot of conditionals that make us assume she is. Shannon is never found out, as Rune said, so that would allow us to use her corpse to fake Rosa's. And the most suspicious fact is that nothing else is found from Maria but her little crown.

I could try looking for a loophole later, but I guess there's still a chance that this is just a red herring. I don't believe so, though.

>> No. 18472 edit
File 14467806295.png - (418.60KB , 640x480 , TheoryGoatPic.png )
18472
Goat-kun was forced back under the furious blue assault. Although he fended off what he could, more than one struck home.

>>18464

The blue about Kinzo's study landed a solid body blow, and he grunted out the red truth. "The culprit blocked the lock on the door with an item strong enough to keep it from locking while it was open. The culprit waited in the study for Jessica. When Jessica opened the door the object fell down past her leg. After Jessica was killed, the culprit left and picked up the object, letting the door lock normally."

>>18465

"You can theorize that someone is not the culprit. I am under no obligation to confirm that they are not the culprit using the red. However, I will confirm that Shannon's physical body resembles the form of Yasu or Lion from other gameboards. In other words, most of the feminine physical attributes are prosthetic, and Doctor Nanjo could tell Shannon apart from from everyone else."

"Genji is not an accomplice."

"When Maria locked the door after Rosa left with Genji and Gohda to get Doctor Nanjo, Maria was alone in the room."

"There are many keys on this island, that exist for many doors, such as the door to the chapel, the door of the storage shed, and the like. However, I shall at least grant this, which I believe is what you were looking to confirm. There are six master keys, which are designed to open any lockable door in the main mansion except for Kinzo's study. They do not work on any locks in the guest house, the chapel, the storage shed, or any other lockable door that may happen to exist on Rokkenjima. However, the master keys are not important to this gameboard."

>>18470

"It is true that that would technically get around the red truth. So let me close that loophole. Maria was not caught by and did not land on the culprit. Rosa was not caught by and did not land on the culprit after jumping from the window."

-----------------------------------

There was a gasp from the figure beside Beato.

"Another room down," Beatrice sighed. "It won't be long now. You shouldn't watch."

"...no. I want to watch until the end. He made this for me, and I owe it to him." Unshed tears glistened in the darkness.

Last edited at 15/11/05(Thu)19:31:05
>> No. 18473 edit
Thank you for gracing us with the red, Master Goat. We now know that much more.

...Although knowing is quite painful in the case of the second twilight. This locked room has a deadly beauty to its impenetrability, especially now that he explanation to Maria's murder has now been cruelly dashed.... You've probably noticed that I'm running out of ideas.

But I have a few left!

The cousins' room is missing a wall! There are no secret passages, and the killer didn't enter through a window, and the door was locked, but since the room was very obviously missing a wall (making it not secret), the culprit was still able to get in and out of the room!

No one mentioned this in the MYSTERY sequences just because!


I'm sorry for that one. But here's one I think is a bit better!

While Maria didn't open the door for anyone, she did open a window to get some fresh air. Because of this, the culprit was able to use some Method X to grab Maria through the window from the ground. I would guess a lasso. The culprit lassoed (or something else-d) Maria out the cousins' room through the open window, much like how Beatrice had Maria kidnapped out the open window.

The moment of lassoing happened just after Maria unlocked the door for her Mama. When Rosa entered the room and locked the door behind her, she saw the culprit making off with Maria towards the forest (this would be kidnapping, not a hostage situation, since the culprit made no attempt to use Maria to force any action). In a panic, Rosa leapt out the window after them, ultimately falling to her death.

After killing Maria in the forest, the culprit returned to the guesthouse and came across Rosa's corpse. The culprit mutilated it, and left.

The window was closed by the wind/weather. The door was locked when Rosa came to it and has been left locked for the cousins to find it.

It's possible to commit the murder without the use of magic. Witchcraft need not be real!


More hardware. But have another theory, because they are probably ALL wrong somehow, anyway!

While Rosa told Maria not to open the door for anyone but her, this doesn't exclude the possibility of her leaving the door unlocked for someone else to open. Maria for some unknown reason X departed from the cousins' room. It's possible she grew worried about her Mama and left to search for her. When she left, the door naturally had to be left unlocked, as Maria had no way to lock it from the outside.

The culprit later came across the unlocked door and decided to set a trap for Rosa by waiting inside. The culprit entered the room and locked the door. Rosa later showed up, and the culprit sprung on her, attacking. In trying to escape, Rosa leapt out the window, only to die on impact with the ground.

The culprit then exited the cousins' room and then had one of their accomplices enter it, lock the door behind them, and leap out the window to their death, thereby locking the room.

The culprit then mutilated Rosa's body. The culprit also disposed of the accomplice's body somewhere else. Maria was killed later. The wind/weather closed the window.

It's a perfect locked room with no magic whatsoever!

Alternatively, the accomplice could've waited in the room and attacked Rosa. Since Rosa died by leaping out the window herself, it'd count as the accomplice not killing Rosa. The accomplice then did the same as before to lock the room by locking the door from the inside and jumping out the window, only for the culprit to later mutilate Rosa's corpse, dispose of the accomplice's body and kill Maria later while the wind/weather closed the window.


And I don't think Rune's theory is quite as dashed as you make it out to be, Master Goat. Let's generalize a little.

There was some unknown Thing X that Rosa landed on after jumping into the storm out the window of the cousins' room. Be it a mattress, person (aside from the culprit), car, or flower, this Thing X helped soften Rosa's fall, preventing her death. This does not violate the red, as one only dies if one jumps from the second floor of the guesthouse to the GROUND.

Last edited at 15/11/06(Fri)05:48:22
>> No. 18474 edit
Well, I'll just go on ahead while leaving that second one to the other detective. I'm assuming I don't really have to figure out what the 'item' was that blocked the door. There are still some open questions, but nothing I couldn't wager a pretty solid guess on. So~

There is no mystery about the fourth crime. The culprit killed George and Kumasawa and placed them in the boiler room together with Kinzo's corpse. They closed some valves or something, causing the boiler to explode a bit later.

But just speculating about this one won't satisfy me right now - unless it somehow turns out there's more to it - so let's include the next one.
This is all getting into "everyone had an alibi/is confirmed innocent, who even is the culprit?" territory. If that's something I'm supposed to account for, well... that'd get tricky without accusing someone specific, unless I'm allowed to just go with "they faked their death at some point" for now.

The guest house. Gohda opened the door for the culprit. Together, they'd have had an easy time taking out Genji and Nanjo without much of a sound. The blood in Gohda's room was merely planted there to make it look like he died, which explains much better why Battler didn't hear a thing.

When Battler discovered the scene, the culprit was hiding inside the guesthouse, explaining how everything still was locked. They exited after Battler left for the shed.


They might've had to leave briefly at some point here to do things in the storage shed, but one crime at a time.
>> No. 18475 edit
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18475
Goat-kun continued to be driven back, battered on all sides.

>>18473

"The cousins' room is not missing a wall, and even if it was, the 'cousins room' would then include the area bounded by what walls surrounded it."

"Maria was not pulled out of the cousins' room window via Method X, lasso-like or otherwise."

"Maria obeyed her Mama's instructions about the door completely, to the point where she would not even unlock the door for herself, no matter the circumstances, unless her Mama told her it was alright. Furthermore, the accomplice did not leap out of the second floor window."

Then the last blue came in, and struck Goat-kun hard in the cheekbone. He stumbled back, his eye immediately beginning to swell up.

Steadying himself, he faced the detectives with grim determination. "I acknowledge the hit. Rosa landed on a person who was not the culprit, and as such was not killed by the fall."

>>18474

Goat-kun managed to throw up a solid red block to the first blue.

"At the time George's stomach was gouged, the culprit was waiting for Jessica in Kinzo's study. It was impossible for the culprit to be in two places at once!"

"To avoid naming the culprit, if faking their death is part of your theory, you may just say that."

The next blue formed a three-punch combo that left Goat-kun momentarily on his knee, but he stood quickly, spitting out a tooth with another bit of red. "I acknowledge the hits. Well struck. Gohda unlocked and opened the door for the culprit. He assisted in the murders of Genji and Nanjo so that they could be killed quietly. The blood on Gohda's bed was planted. The culprit hid in the guesthouse, and used the note on Gohda's bed to get Battler to leave without searching the guesthouse thoroughly first."

"Gohda is an accomplice."

Goat-kun clenched his fists, building his strength. Then, with a demonic roar, he struck.

"There are many more mysteries to solve, large and small! Do not think you have beaten me yet!"

------------------------------------------

"All it ever takes is a single thread, and it all unravels..." whispered Beato, hearing the sound of paper crumple slightly in someone's grip.
>> No. 18476 edit
Huh... the part with Rosa actually happening like that was unexpected. I didn't really think she was that suspicious, but now I should probably reconsider.

Time to backtrack to the fourth crime... I see. So that's what he put in his pocket.

George was lured to Kinzo's study in exactly the same fashion as Jessica. (using Shannon's name on the note instead of Kanon)

The blood on the floor was actually George's... or both George's and Jessica's. He was actually killed in the same place.

Five minutes isn't a lot of time, but might be enough to drag the two bodies out of the room and out of sight. George's body was then brought to the boiler room.

>> No. 18477 edit
I was definitely NOT expecting that to be right. Um... okay. First, congratulations, Goat. Your instincts were right despite all the "evidence." In this case, Rune's theory is definitely not as dashed as it seemed to be.

When Rosa came to the door of the cousins' room to get Maria, Maria unlocked the door but then rushed to the little ledge outside the window so as to be "not in" the room when Rosa entered. When Rosa opened the door, entered, and locked the door behind her out of habit, Maria jumped out the window. This was not an attempt at suicide, because there was some Person X waiting below who told Maria they'd catch her, possibly an accomplice, though it's also possible it was someone not affiliated with the crime and its commission.

Upon seeing Maria jump, Rosa rushed forward and jumped out the window and into the storm. She caught Maria in mid air and landed on the Person X, breaking their fall.

Then, for some Reason Y, Rosa took Maria and fled the island before the seagulls cried, perhaps using some boat to escape. The culprit (whoever it may be) faked their deaths using someone else's corpse and Maria's crown. Alternatively, Rosa faked her and Maria's deaths herself, to throw the culprit off. Or something.

Alternatively, they were killed by the culprit later, later being as short or long as it needs to be.

The wind/weather closed the window. The door was locked when Rosa came to it and when Battler, George, and Jessica came to it.

This locked room require no magic at all!


But in case that doesn't work the way I want it to...

The "locked room" of the cousins' room is not very mysterious after all. Some person unlocked the door for Rosa. This person was probably Maria. Rosa entered the door, locked it behind her, and both the person and Rosa jumped out the window. The door was left locked, the window was closed by the weather.

It's actually not very strange at all.


So there's a few theories... but I have some lingering questions.

It's been stated in red that no one was left alive on the cursed island of Rokkenjima when the seagulls cried. That makes it sound like everyone was killed, but it's actually pretty vague. Try these blue truths on for size!

Rokkenjima isn't cursed, so the red truth is talking about a DIFFERENT island called Rokkenjima. Some people were left alive on the island at the gameboard's end!

The seagulls didn't cry for many, many years, long after anyone remaining would've passed away naturally. So while everyone was dead when the seagulls cried, there were still some people alive on the island right after the murders.

A person or persons simply left the island before the seagulls cry. While there aren't any living people left on Rokkenjima, that's not to say there are no survivors.


Now that Rosa is alive to kill everyone else, she suddenly makes for a pretty good culprit. Not naming any names yet, but she was in the cousins' room to plant Jessica's (and possibly George's?) note, was "napping" during the first twilight, and being dead gives her the greatest alibi in the world for the remaining deaths. I don't want to make any accusations yet as this could just be another red herring, but I do retract my blue that Rosa CANNOT be the culprit.

And Master Goat, I know you are an honorable fighter, but forgive my paranoia here:

The cousins' room is the room in the guesthouse George, Jessica, and Battler's belongings were in and is the room Rosa and Maria were sleeping in when Genji came to fetch Rosa after the first twilight. In other words, both rooms are one and the same. It has a door that can be locked and is surrounded on all four sides by walls that cut it off from the rest of the guesthouse. It is definitely not defined as the guesthouse or multiple rooms in the guesthouse or the hallway of the guesthouse or anything other than what it most obviously is to the casual reader of the gameboard.

Hm... I wonder...

Because Shannon is Kanon and Kanon did nothing that would earn him blame, Shannon didn't do anything that would earn her blame either. Because they're the same person, she can't have done anything that would earn her blame, as that would violate the red about Kanon not doing anything that would earn him blame.

I think... that's enough for now. Yeah.

Last edited at 15/11/07(Sat)07:12:10
>> No. 18478 edit
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18478
>>18476

"You should trust your instincts. Five minutes would be too short a time to take two bodies out of sight from Kinzo's study. George was not lured to Kinzo's study, was not attacked there, and was not killed there. George was killed in the boiler room. He had been lured to the boiler room by a note similar to the one Jessica received. I gave you that last to acknowledge your observation about him putting something in his pocket. Well spotted, though the imagined contents were incorrect.

>>18477

Suddenly Goat-kun came under a strong attack from the other detective. He thought he'd been prepared, but there was too much to face. He fought as though his life depended on it.

"For ease of reference, the windowsill counts as being in the room. So therefore Maria would still be in the room in this theory." He bashed the first theory, letting its pieces fly by as he faced the next.

"If 'that person' were Maria, she would be in the room when Rosa entered. Maria was not in the room when Rosa entered. Where was Maria then?" Suddenly he sent out a quick one-two of his own. "Maria did not jump or intentionally fall from the window! Maria did not fall from the window by accident! So that leaves being thrown, yes?" he asked, then let loose a roundhouse. "Rosa did not throw Maria out the window!"

Behind that came a swarm of blue strikes, floating like golden butterflies but stinging like bees.

"There is only one island Rokkenjima, definition of 'cursed' notwithstanding."

"The seagulls cried when they returned to the island, the morning after the storm had passed."

Then the third of the group came in, and struck him in the solarplexus, causing him to crumple. He gasped for air for a moment before standing shakily.

"I acknolwedge...that that is how the explosion killed no one... At least one human was left alive after the final murder, and then escaped the island in the night, before the seagulls returned to cry" He coughed again. "A solid hit. I acknowledge you as a worthy opponent."

The next blue he managed to simply reverse the direction on, changing it's color. "The cousins' room is the room in the guesthouse George, Jessica, and Battler's belongings were in and is the room Rosa and Maria were sleeping in when Genji came to fetch Rosa after the first twilight. In other words, both rooms are one and the same. It has a door that can be locked and is surrounded on all four sides by walls that cut it off from the rest of the guesthouse. It is definitely not defined as the guesthouse or multiple rooms in the guesthouse or the hallway of the guesthouse or anything other than what it most obviously is to the casual reader of the gameboard."

As for the last one, he caught the solid strike in his palm, and nodded. "The reasoning is sound, and I acknowledge it. As Kanon did nothing to earn him blame, and Kanon and Shannon are the same, then Shannon did nothing to earn her blame either. Even dropping the teapot, as Genji stated, was a simple mistake."

---------------------------------------

"There's almost nothing left..." whispered the figure in the shadows.

"Actually, there's quite a lot," whispered Beatrice. "Why the adults in the parlor did not fight back. The truth about the boiler room deaths. What happened to Shannon. Where Jessica's body is. How the corpses got into the storage shed, which I know he was so proud of. And, of course, the whydunnit."

"The whydunnit?"

"Oh yes. A friend of mine once said that he would never accept any theory that ignores the heart. And Goat-kun would never craft a mystery without a heart. I only hope the detectives can find it while they're dragging out the guts."

"...that's really a disgusting metaphor."

"Yeah, I was just thinking that myself."

Last edited at 15/11/08(Sun)10:56:31
>> No. 18479 edit
Heh heh heh... this closed room is very impressive, Master Goat. If I am a worthy opponent, you are far worthier, as you had me grasping for the most desperate of theories for a while there. But now that the trick's been exposed, the red only leads me closer to the solution!

When Rosa came to the door to the cousins' room, Maria was indeed inside it. Maria unlocked the door and opened it for her Mama. Instead of entering, though, Rosa asked Maria to step outside for her. Maria did. THEN Rosa entered the door, locking it behind her. Although Maria unlocked the door for Rosa, Maria was not inside when Rosa entered!

Rosa then jumped out the window of the cousins' room intentionally. This wasn't suicide, though, as Rosa knew there was some person below who would catch her/who she could land on, softening her fall and preventing her death.

Maria didn't jump out the window or fall and wasn't thrown out by Rosa. She exited through the door!

Rosa then escaped with Maria. It is possible they left the island at some point. Alternatively, they were just killed later. I'm leaning towards the former, though.

Their deaths were either faked by themselves using a corpse (Shannon's, probably) and Maria's crown or by someone else (probably the culprit) using the same.

The wind/weather closed the window.

When Rosa came to the door it was locked. When Rosa entered Maria wasn't inside. When Battler, Jessica, and George came to the door, it was locked.

That is how Rosa and Maria's "deaths" took place and how the room was locked. No magic was necessary to make this locked room possible!


I like that blue truth the best, and it's the one I'm most confident in. But let's play it safe and go for multiple theories, shall we? You said that Rosa didn't throw Maria out the window. What about someone else?

When Rosa came to the door, Maria was inside the cousins' room and unlocked it for her. Rosa then stepped aside and allowed the culprit to enter and throw Maria out the window, killing her. Yes, Rosa is an accomplice! Then, to create the locked room, the culprit left through the door, and Rosa entered through the door and locked it behind her. The culprit went outside and stood below the window. Rosa jumped out the window and landed on Maria. Or rather her corpse. But NOT on the culprit. Either way, Rosa's alive because she landed on a human, not the ground.

The culprit then did one of two things. The culprit either killed Rosa right there anyway, OR they faked Rosa's death using someone else's corpse. Maria's body was also disposed of by the culprit.

The wind/weather closed the window, and the door was left locked for Battler, George, and Jessica to find.


But maybe Rosa ISN'T an accomplice. The theory can still work!

When Rosa came to the door, Maria was inside the cousins' room and unlocked it for her. Rosa then stepped aside and allowed some Person X to enter and throw Maria out the window. This did NOT kill Maria, as either Rosa or some Person Y stood below the window and caught Maria, preventing her death. The Person X then exited the room and allowed Rosa to enter it. Rosa locked the door behind her and jumped out the window, but was caught by someone/landed on someone, be it X, Y (who doesn't necessarily exist), or Maria.

The wind closed the window, the deaths were faked using someone else's corpse (or the culprit caught up to Rosa and killed her there), no magic necessary, etcetera.


Hm... wasn't actually expecting that Shannon and Kanon blame one to work. Well, it's a pleasant surprise. But to try and prevent surprises in the future...

The motive for the murders is not such that one would not be able to blame the killer for it. In other words, murder is still an act that would earn one blame, regardless of the motive.

Shannon is therefore not the culprit!


Also...

While it's true that it was POSSIBLE for Battler to be mistaken about the corpse he assumed to be Shannon's in the tool shed, that doesn't necessarily mean that he really WAS. In fact, he wasn't mistaken, as Shannon is the only individual on the island to have a tattoo of a one-winged eagle on their leg. So it really was Shannon's corpse.

An extension of that would be as follows:

In fact, any corpse that was Shannon's and was sufficiently scrutinized would easily be identified as Shannon's because of the tattoo of a one-winged eagle. So all of the six victims of the first twilight really are dead, because if Shannon's corpse were used to fake their deaths, Dr. Nanjo would've recognized the body as Shannon's because of the tattoo.

And, hm... Let's throw this one in.

If someone jumped or fell from the second floor of the guesthouse and landed on Maria or Maria tried to catch someone doing so, Maria would be killed, as she is far too small to catch anybody else on the island safely.

Last edited at 15/11/08(Sun)13:10:46
>> No. 18480 edit
Looks like I missed the mark. Well, that complicates things, but given what we know there shouldn't really be many ways for this to work.

There was a trap that shot George in the stomach when he entered the boiler room. Seeing as just about any construction of wood and string would have burned in a fire like that, it is plausible that nothing remained to be found.

That's probably the expected move. But who knows, maybe it's the right move?
...
Now for something I suspected for a while but never got to actually try. And now that we have it confirmed Gohda is an accomplice, I probably should.

Gohda's pâté contained sleep-inducing drugs of some kind. That's why the six in the parlor offered no resistance. It's also why Shannon - the only other person that got to try it - never reached the guesthouse.
>> No. 18481 edit
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18481
>>18479

The blue slammed itself into Goat-kun's side, and a rib could be heard to crack as he fell. The further blues flew over his head, because they weren't necessary. He lay on the ground for a moment, then stood, shakily, holding his side, before resuming a fighting stance.

"I acknowledge...the hit... Maria unlocked the door for Rosa, opened the door, and exited the room. Rosa then entered, locking the door behind her. A couple minutes later, Rosa willingly jumped from the window, knowing that there was someone below to catch her. The wind closed the window. The culprit had faked their deaths at the time when the cousins discovered the scene together. That is how the closed room of the Second Twilight occurred."

Despite his injury, he kept fighting, though more and more hits landed.

"No motive would be so strong as to make the murderer not earn blame. Shannon is not the culprit."

"Shannon is the only inhabitant of the island to have the Ushiromiya crest tattooed on her leg. Any corpse that was sufficiently scrutinized could be identified as Shannon's because of the tattoo on the leg. Shannon's corpse was not used to substitute for any corpse in the parlor."

"Maria did not catch anyone jumping from the second floor of the guesthouse."

>>18480

Whirling, Goat-kun tried to block the next blue, but was too slow, and it caught him in the kidney.

"Grr. I will not fight you on every detail, as it would be dishonorable. You struck well. There was a trap in the boiler room that gouged George's stomach and triggered the explosion a few moments later. The fire burned most of the evidence, and the rest was cleared up by Gohda while fighting the fire."

The other blue flew in, but was met by a solid block from Goat-kun. "Do not thing that means I am done, though. No drugs, poisons, or toxins were added to any food or drink prepared. Not the tea, not the fish, not the liver pate, not any other named or unnamed dish. If the pate was used, it would have to be in a way in which no drugs, poisons, or toxins were added."
>> No. 18482 edit
YEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!! FINALLY!!!!!

At last! Thanks again to Goat for your stubbornness and to Rune for the first theory involving Rosa's survival. While your red truths were carefully crafted, Master Goat-kun, (too many goats) it was the fact that you specifically said that Rosa didn't land on the culprit that made me worry something was up. I figured it was a red herring at first, but, well...

Anyway, as you said there are still many more mysteries to solve, so let's get started!

Seeing as the culprit had to fake their deaths, Rosa and Maria are, in fact, still alive, and are among those who escaped the island before the seagulls returned to cry.

That's not very pertinent to the whole witch, thing, though, and it's time I finally talk about something other than Rosa and Maria and the second twilight. Let's tackle Kumasawa's death!

Kumasawa was killed by the same trap in the boiler room that ended George's life. She was either lured there or forcibly brought there.

Alternatively,

Kumasawa was killed much earlier, and her body was simply left in the boiler room before George and Jessica were killed.

Sometimes the simplest answers are best. We'll see if these hold up or not soon enough. But there's also the matter of there being no struggle from our first victims. Before I try to strike with blue, I'd like to ask a question. What defines a "drug" or "poison" or "toxin?" Does it have to be something synthetic? Does it have to be something that has the express purpose of inducing sleep?

But I won't be satisfied with just that! Being crushed time and again has given me a taste for massive assaults. Let's get ourselves ready to strike at the heart of the matter.

Confirmatory blue: The killer's motive had nothing to do with the gold. This can logically be extended to say that the killer's motive had nothing to do with money at all. In other words, the killer's motive had no financial or monetary basis or origin.

With no culprit even named, I won't go any further than that. But speaking of who the culprit isn't...
In spoilers because I know you probably won't confirm this in red. I'm just thinking out loud. The culprit PROBABLY isn't Natsuhi, Krauss, Kyrie, Rudolf, Eva, Hideyoshi, Shannon, Kinzo, Jessica, George, Kumasawa, Maria, Genji, Nanjo, Gohda, or Battler.

There is one person who maybe could be the culprit. Hm......


One last blue.

Because Shannon has done nothing that would earn her blame, Shannon also isn't an accomplice. Willingly going along with the culprit's plan would certainly earn one blame.

That's all for now. I must say, this is a devious gameboard, Master Goat-kun, and it has been a thrilling fight. But know that I will never give up until every locked room is broken!

Last edited at 15/11/10(Tue)13:23:42
>> No. 18483 edit
Good, that was a funny loophole there. It seems like you won't need me anymore. Have fun.
>> No. 18484 edit
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18484
Well, I could have thought up a more specific trap, but I couldn't find any clues that'd suggest a certain direction. Ah well.
I'm afraid food isn't my strong point, so I'll retreat from that one for now.

Now for the storage shed... technically i could have you confirm something first to make this an actual mystery, but I feel it's fairly obvious the simple solution won't work. So... take this!

Gohda most likely couldn't have pretended to just lock the shed after the group got flashlights as the others watched him.
However, what he COULD have done is switch the padlock with another while he was holding it and the others were inside to get stuff. And that's just what he did. He then later disposed of the original padlock somewhere the culprit would find it.

The culprit had the key to the second padlock, so they unlocked it and placed the two bodies inside. They then obtained and used the original padlock to lock the shed. (as it's just an open padlock, no key required).
It was only AFTER that that they committed the guesthouse murders.
But how does that work for Gohda? Simple, "Gohda's body" in the shed wasn't actually Gohda's body. His head was missing, and if he was wearing the gloves Gohda wore when he was cooking, his body would have been completely covered by his clothes. So even if it was one of the charred corpses, it would have been hard to tell. All the culprit needed was a second Gohda outfit, but as we're talking about a chef it's quite likely he had some spares somewhere.

>> No. 18485 edit
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>>18482

Goat-kun tried to block and dodge as he could, but his rib was proving too painful to ignore completely.

He dodged the first blue. "I stated only that the deaths were faked at the time of the discovery by the cousins. I need not confirm Rosa and Maria's whereabouts thereafter unless it becomes intrinsic to a theory."

He dodged the second blue as well, but it left him open for the third. With a grunt of pain, he said, "Kumasawa was killed earlier in the boiler room, before George and Jessica were killed."

"In this case, the definition of a drug, poison, or toxin is any synthetic or organic substance that has the specific and intended purpose of creating a chemical reaction in those it comes in contact with, whether it be sleep, paralysis, hallucinations, death, or otherwise. The definition of 'added' is 'to include in the food or drink in a way that is not required by the recipe. If there were a berry pie and arsenic were baked into it, the arsenic would be 'added'. If the berries themselves were poisonous, they would not be 'added,' as berries are required by the recipe, poisonous or not."

Goat-kun smiled at the next blue. "Recall, the gold never bothered the culprit anyway. So your reasoning is sound. Gaining wealth was not the direct motive for these murders. I will not say it played no part, as money always affects the destiny of a rich family, but the final motive is not money."

"And yes, willingly going along with a culprit's plan makes one an accomplice and earns one blame, even if no direct action is taken. Shannon is not an accomplice."

>>18484

After all those smaller strikes, Goat-kun found himself blindsided and slammed back by the other detective's truth. Getting up from where he had landed, he shook his head in disbelief.

"To think it would fall so easily. I acknowledge that masterful strike. Gohda switched the padlock while the others were inside, and then locked the shed with this second padlock, which the culprit had the key for. The culprit placed the corpses inside before the guesthouse murders. The corpse that Battler believed was Gohda was not Gohda, but was wearing Gohda's uniform. Such skill must be rewarded, so I give you this: Battler was not completely blind, only viewing the corpses from a few dozen steps away. There were no gloves, it was not a charred corpse. It was an adult male, of approximately Gohda's build."

-----------------------------------------

"Mate in one move..." whispered Beatrice, recalling her line from the musical.

Beside her, tears silently fell to the stage floor.

Out-of-Game Note: Alright, I think just about everything has been solved, aside from why the adults didn't fight back, which is not technically necessary as the closed room has already been broken. So you can continue to post theories to nail down exactly what happened before the end (like the reason they didn't fight), or you can go for broke and just go for the solution.

Just wanted to offer this as an Out-of-Game thing: Bonus bragging points if you guess who the figure beside Beato is in your solution post (probably not that hard, just put it in spoiler tags at the end), before I reveal them.

>> No. 18486 edit
I'll make one last try to solve the lingering mysteries of this gameboard before I go for broke and try to hunt down the very human identity of our mysterious Golden Witch. Be prepared, Master Goat-kun, for I am going to bring an end to this mystery and shed light on the truth once and for all!

You specified that a drug, poison, or toxin has to be something intentionally added to a food outside its recipe with the express purpose of inducing a chemical reaction in the consumer. To get around that, there was simply some Ingredient X in the dish that induced drowsiness. Be it something in the pâté, the dimbula tea, the crackers, or anything else those in the parlor ate, it put them to sleep. With Gohda as an accomplice, this can be explained as him knowing enough about the cuisine to know what sort of ingredients could put someone to sleep reliably. Alternatively, if not sleep, it was some sort of incapacitation, be it paralysis or merely crippling pain.

Further alternatively, maybe it was not a single ingredient, but some combination of the ingredients. Alone they would do nothing to a consumer, but together they incapacitated the six original victims.


Those are the answers I can come up with that are dependent upon the loophole that exists with the definition of drugs, poisons, and toxins in mind. But since this is probably a devious trick and you seemed to give away the specifics of what drugs, poisons, and toxins were, is it perhaps a red herring? In the which case, have my other alternatives!

Gohda hypnotized the six victims in the parlor! He spends an inordinate amount of time describing his pâté to the adults in the parlor, and it's almost suspicious. Seeing as he's an accomplice, perhaps he slipped some hypnotic suggestion into his descriptions of the pâté? Some sort of hypnotic suggestion that had a sort of delayed reaction and would, at the appropriate time perhaps when part of the will was read aloud?), incapacitate the six by putting them to sleep or whatever else hypnosis is capable of.

Heh. Maybe a little out there, but there are no drugs, poisons, or toxins, right? But why leave it at that? In fact, there's another loophole with the drugs, poisons, and toxins!

While no drugs, poisons, or toxins were added to any FOOD, that doesn't mean they weren't USED. At some point, the six victims were poisoned or drugged, and that caused them to be incapacitated.

It could've been before the gameboard began, with the drug intended to have some kind of delayed reaction. Natsuhi does mysteriously have a headache at the gameboard's start.

It could've been while they were in the parlor; if someone - perhaps an accomplice - opened the window "for some fresh air," the six could've been shot with a tranquilizer gun through the window.

Maybe the culprit and two accomplices (one being Gohda) could've quickly overpowered the victims and chloroformed them.

Whatever the true nature of the Method X of drugging, the victims were still somehow drugged!


Maybe I'm getting carried away, but I'm having fun coming up with all sorts of solutions. But I wonder: will they all still be crushed? I don't know. Next up, we have the solution of ignoring the problem entirely!

The six victims were only made to LOOK as though they hadn't fought back. The truth is that they DID fight back, but all evidence of the struggle was cleaned up after the six were killed, and the victims' corpses were posed in the positions Genji found them in. Incapacitating the victims was never necessary at all!

And finally, the generic one.

There was some Method X that the culprit or an accomplice to the culprit used to incapacitate the victims of the first twilight. Be it an ingredient, hypnosis, or a mind control ray, it wasn't magic, and witchcraft hasn't been proven to be real! Alternatively, there was some Method Y that the culprit or an accomplice to the culprit used to make it appear to those who say the room that the victims of the original twilight had not struggled.

There, that's about everything I can think of for that puzzle. But there's a few things left, aren't there?

The corpse dressed up as Gohda was either Rudolf or Krauss. I believe Krauss is the most likely candidate, though; based on the sprites, Krauss looks like he most closely matches Gohda in build. Battler never goes back to the parlor to see the original six victims, so it's a possibility.

EDIT: Obvious mistakes about George and Kinzo were obvious and have been edited out.

Anything else? I don't want there to be a single truth left hidden!

Shannon's death is no mystery. She was killed while going to the guesthouse by the culprit, and her body was hidden, perhaps in the forest, until the culprit needed to make use of it. It was probably first brought out to fake Rosa's death (with mutilation of the body preventing it from being recognized; additionally, since no one examines the body, they all just easily missed Shannon's tattoo and later put in the shed for Battler to find.

One more...

Battler's death is also no mystery. He intentionally sought out the culprit and, as you said in the red, was shot and killed at point blank range.

And not a death, but...

The culprit probably escaped the island during the night before the seagulls came to cry, possibly with some companions. One might be Gohda. It makes more sense to be an accomplice if it doesn't require that you get killed, right?

If my theories on how the six in the parlor were incapacitated falls through or my theory on whose body "Gohda" was, I think I'll just go for the solution anyhow (if my theories on Shannon or Battler fall through, that'd be a problem, though). I don't think I'll be able to think of anything more than what I've got here. Maybe Rune can think of an even more devious trick than those I've hypothesized?

Either way, Master Goat-kun, next turn I'll be coming after your precious Golden Witch "Beatrice!" Be prepared!

_______________

I'll save my guess as to the identity of Beatrice's conversational partner for my solution post. If Rune guesses, I don't plan on reading it; I'll see if I can maybe get it myself, though I don't know Umineko even a fraction as well as most people on this board, so I could just end up being way off the mark. We'll see, I suppose.

Last edited at 15/11/11(Wed)06:19:34
>> No. 18487 edit
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>>18486

Goat-kun was struck in the liver by the first blue truth, leaving the rest to break against him harmlessly. He was swaying on his feet, battered and bruised, but not beaten yet. "I acknowledge that there could have been an ingredient in the pate that was poisonous, which could then have incapacitated those who ate it, being the 6 in the parlor and Shannon."

He panted with exhaustion, but fought on, even as another blow landed, then another. "The corpse that stood in for Gohda in the shed was Krauss Ushiromiya."

"Shannon was killed by the culprit on the way to the guesthouse."

Then, Goat-kun's eyes flashed, and he roared with defiance. "However! Battler only discovered Shannon's corpse once, recognized as her or not! Furthermore, there is a body confirmed to be lying in the spot where Rosa's corpse was presumed to be in Battler's final Mystery section! So I challenge you! WHERE IS SHANNON?!"

Goat-kun stood tall and punched out with the blue at one detective. "YOU CANNOT SOLVE THIS MYSTERY!" Then he pulled his arm back, and punched out again at the other detective. "YOU CANNOT SOLVE THIS MYSTERY!"

Last edited at 15/11/12(Thu)21:19:12
>> No. 18488 edit
Heh. An excellent move, Master Goat-kun. I'm afraid I simply can't let this mystery go without at least trying to crack the conundrum!

We CAN solve this mystery!

Since you've already confirmed that Shannon is the only one on the island to have a tattoo of the Ushiromiya crest on her leg, I have two solutions. Pick your poison, Master Goat-kun, for all are meant to be as lethal as they come!

The first is the sensible solution. Shannon is in the shed. Either Natsuhi or Kyrie's corpse is where Rosa's was presumed to be. No one ever examined "Rosa's" corpse very thoroughly, and the parlor was left alone after the bodies were first examined. The culprit or an accomplice with the necessary tools to get in reentered the room and took one of the bodies out to use in faking Rosa's death. No tools are even needed, in fact, as Genji has already broken the sealed room by smashing a window!

The second solution makes a little less sense from a mystery perspective and abuses loopholes. Shannon is in the shed. Shannon was used as a fake Rosa and then later moved to the shed for Battler to find. Shannon was left there, and SOMEONE ELSE'S corpse was deposited in the place Rosa's corpse was presumed to be. Battler never goes back there and, in fact, doesn't bother to look out the window to see it, so we never find out WHOSE corpse it is.

We CAN solve the mystery, and we HAVE!


I'll hold off on the solution, because I'd like to send a message to Rune. (message in the spoilers so as not to distract so much from the gameboard and its business)
Do you want to cooperate in any way on tackling the full solution, culprit included? We've both been attacking this gameboard, and I don't want to just post my own theory, as I feel I'd be kind of stealing your thunder, especially since most of this gameboard was figured out by you, if memory serves.

I'd like to figure out some way for us to BOTH posit the solution. Either that or we posit our own distinct solutions, though I'm suspecting we might just end up with very similar blue truths, as I suspect we're on similar trains of thought as far as who might be our killer.

Anyway, maybe I'm worrying over this too much. Let me know what you think, and I can roll with it.


And... I actually think I will guess who Beatrice's companion is now. I don't know if I should expect a response or not, but... (in spoilers in case anyone else wants to try at it on their own)
Beatrice is talking to Ange. The figure says the board was made for them, and this baord seems to portray most of the Ushiromiya family in a very normal, positive light, with the narrative describing even the events in the parlor as sort of bringing them all together as a family. Ange, from what I understand and know about her, values and loves her family and would certainly appreciate a gameboard that didn't drag them through the mud like many others do.

Last edited at 15/11/12(Thu)21:44:15
>> No. 18489 edit
Okay, that's unexpected. I don't think a body from the parlor could have been used, at least for the first instance where we'd need Shannon's body. Well, we're not out of spare bodies yet.

The body assumed to be Rosa is actually Shannon.

Meanwhile, the body assumed to be Shannon is actually Jessica.


To calvinball:
Well, both ways work for me. Feel free to just go ahead and post it. I've solved a fair bit of this, so I'm satisfied no matter what. As you said, we probably have more or less the same thing in mind anyway.
>> No. 18490 edit
Okay, cool. I think for simplicity's sake, I'll just put up my own solution (assuming we figure out this final twist) and you can put up yours. Thinking about it, any further coordination would probably be somewhat time consuming to figure out.
>> No. 18491 edit
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>>18488

As swift as the coursing river, Goat-kun slashed the first blue to ribbons. "Nanjo remained in the parlor from before Rosa's death until after the corpse that was believed to be Rosa was discovered. Genji remained there from the time he got there with the cousins until after the corpse that was believed to be Rosa was found. There was no way to get any body from the parlor without a person that was in the parlor noticing!"

With all the force of a great typhoon, he smashed the second truth to pieces. "If Shannon were both the original Rosa and the corpse in the shed, Battler would have discovered her twice, even though she was not recognized. As stated, Battler only discovered Shannon's corpse once, recognized as her or not! Therefore, this theory is impossible!"

With all the strength of a raging fire, Goat-kun sent one more additional red at the detective. "Before you start wondering if Nanjo was an accomplice, the culprit did not kill anyone that was an accomplice!"

With one last punch, Goat-kun ended it. "You have not yet solved this mystery!" Goat-kun stood tall, and it seemed that what happened to Shannon would remain as mysterious as the dark side of the moon...

>>18489

...and then the other detective spoke, and Goat-kun was unable to block. It wasn't a particularly damaging hit, only striking him in the shoulder, but it was the one place on his upper body that really hadn't been hit yet. He grunted and remained silent for a time, then smiled slightly, looking up at the lights of the stage.

"I...acknowledge it. The corpse in the shed is Jessica's. The culprit had a few hours while the survivors were barricaded in the guesthouse, and used that time to decapitate Jessica, dress her in Shannon's clothes, and paint a family crest on her thigh. The corpse was never properly scrutinized, so the fact that the design was not actually a tattoo was never realized."

He took a deep breath, centering himself, then exhaled. Looking at the pair, he executed a perfect bow. "I am known as Goat-kun. I am a demon brought forth from the minds of the Children of Men, and I have been a faithful servant of great witches and sorcerers. I am the Gamemaster of the Musical of the Golden Witch. I created this gameboard to challenge myself, and to regain my honor after the defeat I suffered at the hands of Krauss Ushiromiya. Let it be known that I, Goat-kun, thank you both for being my opponents. It has been an honor to fight you."

Only then did he rise up from his bow, and resume his fighting stance. "It shall take a mighty blow to fell me. Do not hold back, detectives!"
>> No. 18492 edit
Master Goat-kun, rumor has it that you'll never craft a board that ignores the heart, and I hope you find my theory on what the heart is sufficient for the Musical of the Golden Witch. Give my regards to your Beatrice before she vanishes, for my final solution removes any necessity of her existence!

Rosa Ushiromiya is the best. Mom. Ever.

Or she tries, anyway. You wouldn't believe how hard she tries. Life isn't easy for them, but Rosa endeavors to provide Maria with the best possible life anyway. She's fiercely protective, and Rosa would quickly destroy anyone who tried to hurt Maria.

The short of it is that the rest of the Ushiromiyas hurt Maria.

And would Rosa be the best mom ever if she let that slide? No. Not in her eyes.

Maria wasn't always so creepy, so “spooky” as the narration puts it. She used to be a perfectly ordinary little girl who liked perfectly ordinary little girl things. She wasn't into witches, she didn't say “Uuu,” and she didn't behave so much younger than she really was. Rosa was so proud of Maria. She knew Maria would go on to do great things, things far greater than that which her Mama had done.

...But a few years ago at a family conference, this all changed. Rosa didn't know what had happened, but Maria changed. She didn't get along with her friends as well as she used to. She never grew out of certain immature quirks, she started saying “Uuu.”

And she believed in Beatrice the Golden with every fiber of her being.

Rosa didn't understand it. Couldn't understand it. What had happened to her darling Maria? Rosa loved her daughter no less, but it was as though someone had clipped an angel's wings. Rosa couldn't be sure of Maria's future, the way she spoke and acted, creeping out schoolmates and scaring neighbors. It scared Rosa a little, try as she did to resist feeling such a horrible thing about her only, beloved daughter. Rosa tried in vain to discover the reason, but the psychologists she contacted could tell her nothing definitive, and being in such dire financial straits, Rosa had to choose food and shelter over further psychological analysis. For the time being, she was in the dark.

That changed just after Kinzo's death. Rosa was designated heir to the Ushiromiya estate and was secretly sent a letter telling her of such. Giving her directions to the gold. Telling her to keep his death a secret for another few years, to wait for the gold for another few years, because he needed something to happen.

He needed something to happen for “Beatrice.”

Rosa bristled at the mention of the witch's name. And the more of the letter she read, the more she understood what had happened.

Her father and others of her family had done something to Maria. They'd indoctrinated her or brainwashed her or traumatized her somehow with the legends and stories of this “Golden Witch!” And the effect of that had never gone away! Kinzo Ushiromiya might be dead, but Maria was mentally scarred by this “Beatrice” for life!

Rosa was enraged. Furious. What was she supposed to do with gold when her family had betrayed her and Maria?! Her loved ones... she couldn't love them, not anymore, not after what they'd done to her Maria. It was her family... her family was to blame...

The very concept of “Ushiromiya” was at fault, and the island of Rokkenjima was forever cursed. Rosa wanted vengeance not on any one person, but on the very idea of Ushiromiya: the entire clan and island.

Rosa couldn't act immediately. She needed time. Time to prepare, to plan. She needed to scout out the manor, so she'd wait until Kinzo's appointed day and use the interim conferences to determine how she could carry out the murders on that island. And wouldn't it be oh-so appropriate to use Beatrice the Golden to bring about vengeance upon Kinzo's legacy, the very legacy that tried to invent her in the first place, the very legacy that poisoned Maria's mind with the idea in the first place?

Finally, the fateful day came. Rosa suggested the reel-to-reel tape recorder to Eva. She persuaded Gohda to join her in her plan, as Gohda was an outsider to the Ushiromiyas, having been hired not by Kinzo, but by Krauss and Natsuhi. He was not already infected with the Golden Witch. And since she already knew Kinzo was dead, she was able to convince Genji to allow her into his study, where she blocked the autolock mechanism. All the pieces were in place.

Kinzo's will had arranged for “Beatrice's” letter to come to those in the parlor, and Rosa knew of this thanks to Kinzo's private correspondence to her after his death. Rosa cleverly excused herself to “check on Maria” and then conveniently “fall asleep.” In reality she doubled back and killed the six after Gohda's dish had incapacitated them, and she used the recorder to seal the room, creating the illusion of the Golden Witch Beatrice.

Soon after, she faked her death with Gohda's assistance. Gohda convinced Kumasawa to go with him to “search for Shannon.” In reality, he lured Kumasawa away from safety and placed her in a position where Rosa could kill her. Either that or he incapacitated her and hid her for being killed later. Then he went to the guesthouse where he caught Rosa when she jumped out the window, allowing her to survive. The wind closed the window, which was a stroke of fantastic luck that made the illusion even stronger. Around this time, Gohda also brought Shannon's corpse out of hiding so it could be used to fake Rosa's death. Rosa had Gohda take Maria and hide in the woods (or somewhere else hidden) so that Maria wouldn't have to be around for the rest of the deaths.

The rest of the hunt was simple. While Gohda was taking care of business, Rosa went to the mansion to continue the murders while Gohda went to retrieve the guns and set up the padlock trick. Assuming Kumasawa wasn't killed sooner, Rosa killed her then and hid her in the boiler room. She then set up her trap for George, after which she went to Kinzo's study to wait for Jessica. She murdered Jessica and hides her body, and the trap for George set off a fire that distracted the remaining survivors. Gohda took charge of the firefighting and cleaned up the debris from the trap, erasing the remaining evidence.

Battler then proposed they make a stand in the guesthouse, but this was no problem. Rosa hid the necessary corpses in the shed and replaced the original padlock, and with Gohda in their ranks as a mole, she easily gained access to the guesthouse. Rosa killed and maimed Dr. Nanjo and Genji and planted the blood and note for Battler to find. With Battler distracted, the culprit and Gohda could sneak out of the guesthouse.

Battler's death was simple. He sought out the killer, and when he found Rosa, she killed him on the spot.

Finally, it was time to leave. Rosa activated the time bomb in the gold room, and she, Gohda, and Maria fled the island on a boat. Their lives were in ruins, but so was the Ushiromiya legacy. Rosa had taken her revenge against the clan that created the Golden Witch that cursed Maria.

That is my final answer! Here are the culprit, the method, and the motive: your brain, your guts, and your heart! The “Golden Witch Beatrice” you so revere, Master Goat-kun, is none other than Rosa Ushiromiya!


(To clarify, the time frame between the change in Maria and Kinzo's death is probably very small, given Maria's age. My theory on Rosa's motive has been largely derived from “I am Free” and the attention paid to Rosa loving Maria and Maria being “spooky.” I go way into the darkness of speculation and guesswork with this one, so I don't know how my theory will compare to the actual solution, but I can't wait to see!)

But before I close, a final "theory."

It has been an absolute honor to fight you in this gameboad, Master Goat-kun. This has been a most entertaining and elegantly intellectual engagement. Thank you for offering such an intriguing and thrilling battle of wits. You have indeed reclaimed our honor, so accept the victory that is rightfully yours for the very creation of this beautifully devious board!

__________

As for the identity of Beatrice's conversational partner, I'm starting to lean away from Ange, since my theory paints the Ushiromiya family as actually NOT being that great of a family. So... I dunno. Maybe Rosa, 'cause she's the culprit? So Goat-kun made it for her, so she could be the star, perhaps.

Last edited at 15/11/15(Sun)16:51:52
>> No. 18493 edit
My guess for the person next to Beatrice is Krauss. Because I want manly tears to be true.
>> No. 18494 edit
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18494
>>18492
>>18493

The “Golden Witch Beatrice” you so revere, Master Goat-kun, is none other than Rosa Ushiromiya!

The blue theory hovered before the detectives, starting as a soft glow, but slowly coalescing and growing ever-brighter with each passing moment. Goat-kun watched it do so, his own eyes glowing their soft red.

The “Golden Witch Beatrice” you so revere, Master Goat-kun, is none other than Rosa Ushiromiya!

Goat-kun thought back to a few months prior, to the moment he had first thought of this gameboard. How it had appeared in his mind, a perfect vision of a game the likes of which hadn't been seen before. Then came the work. Night after night agonizing about how to put murder to rhyme. The flashes of inspiration that allowed him to craft the closed rooms. The joy and camaraderie he had felt during the hours of rehearsal the group had undergone to bring his dream to life. He had found a family. Yet, to his real family, his parents and siblings, he had always been a troublemaker. His big brother, whom he'd always envied and tried to live up to. His little goat sister, who had always looked up to him and whom he'd always teased. Even his childhood friend, whom he'd secretly loved but never had the courage to confess to. He felt saddest of all when he thought of her, and yearned to be able to apologize to her most of all. He recalled how much she loved to sing growing up. Hopefully she might hear these songs someday, at least.

The “Golden Witch Beatrice” you so revere, Master Goat-kun, is none other than Rosa Ushiromiya!

He looked upon the blue words, now glowing as bright as the sun, illuminating every corner of the theater. He gazed at them...and Goat-kun smiled slightly. He began to speak, and his words of red wrapped around the blue, shaping it like how a master craftsman might take steel and shape it into a legendary blade. Although some of the details were off, the soul of the theory was true, and that was what mattered. They had won, and Goat-kun would reveal all.

"Several years before 1986, Kinzo Ushiromiya put the Epitaph of the Golden Witch on display, as a test to determine who would become the head of the family after he had died. He had not counted on the cleverness and determination of Rosa Ushiromiya, who solved it rather quickly. In order to prevent confusion and a power struggle, Rosa and Kinzo agreed that they would keep it a secret until he was about to die. Then Rosa would take her place as the head of the Ushiromiya family, and continue to lead them with intelligence and honor."

"At least, that was what Kinzo wished. Deep in her heart, however, Rosa had no wish to become the family head. Her life growing up had been hell, tormented by her siblings far more than Kinzo knew, and she carried within her the dark secret of the Beatrice of Kuwadorian, and her tragic death at the cliffs. She had wanted to get out from underneath the shadow of the Ushiromiya name all her life, and had started up her own fashion company, AntiRosa, as an attempt to make a name of her own. Yet now she was to become its head. Despite her misgivings, Rosa was a dutiful daughter, and felt obligated to agree. As the years passed, the stress within her built, especially as her instincts to dote upon her daughter warred with her sudden need to mold her into a suitable successor. She cursed herself, and she cursed the Ushiromiya blood that coursed within her and within her daughter that bound them to this life."

"Then Kinzo's health took a turn for the worse, and Kinzo called Krauss, Natsuhi, and Rosa to his study one evening. There he explained to Krauss that Rosa would inherit the family headship. However, he also revealed to Rosa that he had been trying to help Krauss with his business endeavors as his son had come to him asking for aid after digging himself in deep with shady people, and that if his death were to become public now it would mean the ruin of the family. As such, he asked Rosa to do her best to help Krauss and Natsuhi hide his death for a year or two, long enough to find a way out of it. Now Rosa was asked to help the very sibling who had tormented her the most when she was younger. Though it didn't sit easy within her, she might have been able to do it."

"Then her father died, and Rosa stumbled across something she though she would never find again: love. Rosa fell in love with the new servant that Natsuhi had hired, Gohda. That simple flowering of emotion would soon bring about the downfall of the Ushiromiya family, for Rosa finally realized that she had the strength and the reason to break free from the chains of obligation to her lineage and truly make a new life for herself, her daughter, and Gohda. So it was that the noblest feelings gave rise to the foulest of deeds."

"I acknowledge it: In Rosa's eyes, the very concept of “Ushiromiya” was at fault, and the island of Rokkenjima was forever cursed. Rosa wanted vengeance not on any one person, but on the very idea of Ushiromiya: the entire clan and island."

"She and Gohda planned it all. It started a few days prior. Rosa suggested the tape recorder to Eva and Kyrie. Gohda suggested the meal of fugu, a dish of prepared pufferfish, famous for being both very tasty and potentially poisonous if improperly prepared."

"After Natsuhi left to 'talk with Kinzo', Rosa excused herself to 'check on Maria.' At that point she went upstairs and conversed with Natsuhi in Kinzo's study, reassuring her that she'd make sure that the tape would not be able to incriminate her husband. As they left, Rosa secretly blocked the autolock using the folded-up receipt from the store where she'd bought her daughter candy, as paper folded multiple times was small enough to not be noticed and strong enough to block the locking mechanism."

"Gohda prepared the main course perfectly, with only a nonlethal hint of the tetrodotoxin the fish was known for left in its flesh. An interesting fact about the pufferfish, though, is that the highest concentration of this potent nerve toxin can be found in the liver. Yes, Gohda prepared his liver pate with pufferfish livers, making it into an incredibly poisonous dish. One of the primary symptoms of tetrodotoxin poisoning is paralysis, which made it easy for Rosa to kill the incapacitated Shannon between the mansion and the guesthouse, and then take ten minutes to dress her up in a spare set of Rosa's clothes. Rosa was very surprised to learn that most of Shannon's attributes were fake, and later on it led to her having to improvise with her corpse, mutilating it much more than she'd originally intended."

"A short time later, the tetrodotoxin allowed her to reenter the parlor and kill off her siblings and their spouses without any apparent resistance. It's true that the poison would have killed them eventually, but she bashed their heads in first, getting out years of resentment. Incidentally, the weapon was a meat tenderizer. After she had killed them, she took the original note from the envelope and replaced it with the one that the others found. The original note was written as a declaration naming Rosa the Ushiromiya family head, as declared by both Kinzo and 'Beatrice,' as she had been the one to solve the epitaph. So Rosa took it so as to not draw attention to herself, sow confusion amongst the survivors, and set the stage for the continued killing. After the murders were done, she blocked the door, replaced the tape in the recorder with a blank one she had brought with her, and exited through the window. The tape recorder closed the window as described, and she disposed of the incriminating tape, funnily enough keeping her promise to Natsuhi. She then went to the guesthouse, and Gohda provided her with an alibi when Genji came looking for her."

"To fake her own death, she had Maria open the door for her and then go wait outside with Gohda as she entered the room, locked the door, and planted the notes in George's and Jessica's items. Battler coming to the island had been a surprise, and as he didn't have any attachments that she knew of that she could exploit, she let him remain a wild card and hoped that he wouldn't interfere too much. Then, with the stage set, she leapt out from the window into the waiting arms of Gohda, and let the wind shut the window. Gohda let her know that Kumasawa had been knocked out in the boiler room, just as planned, and Gohda and Rosa prepared the fake corpse as Maria hid. Gohda and Rosa returned to the mansion, Gohda distracting those in the parlor while Rosa snuck down to the boiler room to stab Kumasawa in the chest, set up a simple tripwire trap, and to begin building up pressure in the boiler. As a flourish, she added Kinzo's corpse to the fuel. Afterwards, she went up to Kinzo's study to await Jessica."

"The cousins returned to the mansion, and Jessica and George split up. George made it to the boiler room first, and tripped the tripwire trap while running forward in an attempt to stop the boiler from exploding. Jessica, meanwhile, entered Kinzo's study, the receipt brushing by her leg like a petal as it fell, and was killed by Rosa directly. Rosa then lowered her body out the window to the ground below before shutting the window and escaping via the door, picking up the receipt from where it had fallen. She escaped the mansion while everyone else was up in Kinzo's study, and used the chaos of the fire to make sure she could retrieve Jessica's body unobserved. During the fire, which he was prepared for, Gohda removed the remnants of the trap that killed George. Later on, at the storage shed, he switched out the original padlock with a different one, so that Rosa would be able to get into it later, and leaving the original to be found."

"During the night, Rosa got Krauss' body from the parlor, decapitated it, and placed it within the storage shed, wearing one of Gohda's spare uniforms. She also took Jessica's body, decapitated it, and dressed it in the uniform she had taken off of Shannon, before painstakingly painting a fake tattoo on her leg. Her job done, she put the original padlock back on and went to wait for the guesthouse to be unlocked for her."

"In the morning, once Battler was asleep, Gohda signaled her, then went down to open the door. Together they took Nanjo and Genji by surprise, Rosa killing Genji quickly while Gohda used his strength to restrain the out of shape doctor long enough for Rosa to kill him as well. She then mutilated the corpses, and used the bloody knife to fake Gohda's decapitation on his bed. She considered just killing Battler then, but Gohda told her about what Battler was writing, and they decided to let him live to finish it, as it would provide them both with good alibis. So instead she wrote the note to draw Battler out, let Gohda out to begin preparations for departure with Maria, and hid inside the guesthouse. Once Battler had run out, she left as well, and went to go help Gohda and her daughter. Together they worked on making sure the ship that they had stashed in the secret submarine bay, sheltered from the storm, had plenty of provisions and everything they would need to start a new life together. Once that was done, Rosa returned to the surface and found Battler wandering around, looking for her. She shot him in the head at close range, from behind. The last thing he saw was the portrait of Beatrice. He never knew the truth."

"In the early dawn hours, at low tide and when the worst of the storm had passed, Rosa, Maria, and Gohda embarked on a long ocean journey, leaving their old lives behind them to start fresh in the Golden Land, or rather the Golden State, California."

"The Golden Witch Beatrice, for this gameboard, is Rosa Ushiromiya."

With that declaration, the red truth infused the blue theory and made it a perfect strike, one which flew in and struck Goat-kun under the chin with titanic force.

".......I gave it my all......"

As the sparkling drops from his eyes scattered in the stage lights, his massive form tipped and fell backwards onto the stage, where he lay unmoving.

The curtain lowered. The game was done.

-----------------------------------------

And this is why it was bonus points, heh. Comes from watching the Goat-kun scene too many times.

A figure approached the unmoving Goat and knelt by him. It was a female Goat, and she was carrying a bouquet of flowers to give to the director.

"I know you gave it your all. You were always so stubborn... It used to annoy me so much...but it's part of what I love about you," the female Goat said, gingerly stroking Goat-kun's face.

His eyes refocused and looked up at her. "Y-you're...here..."

She smiled, her eyes bright with tears. "Of course I am, idiot," she replied, softly. "Like I'd miss this. It was wonderful. A story of love. A story of family. A story of letting go of the past and starting fresh, becoming someone new. Beautiful. Well, except for the murders." She giggled.

Goat-kun struggled to his feet, allowing her to help support him. "I'm glad you heard my message," he said, smiling despite the pain.

She nodded, holding him close. "You've never been able to hide your feelings from me. I've always known them. All of them."

He looked stunned as the implications of that sunk in, and she giggled. Just then Beato walked up, clapping softly. "Bravo, my friend," she said, warmly. "I'm happy for you, and I'm glad that you convinced us to do this. It was a marvelous time. Now, I suggest you take some time off. You look a little, um, bloody. Just let me know when you're well again and maybe I'll have you run another game."

Goat-kun seemed about to reply, but then the female Goat answered, "Oh, he should be fine sometime after the honeymoon."

"Honeymoon?!" said Goat-kun, incredulously. The female Goat responded only by giving him the kiss he had been longing for for years. Those who were backstage shouted and hooted in appreciation.

"It's perfecto!" announced Beatrice, and her inelegant but delighted cackle could be heard throughout the theater.

Last edited at 15/11/16(Mon)23:03:29
>> No. 18529 edit
It seems that in the end, the motive was simpler than I expected. I guess I didn't need to quite make it so complicated with Maria being brainwashed/indoctrinated/traumatized to believe in the Golden Witch. And Rosa trying to escape the crushing pressures of the name Ushiromiya and also having had a terrible life because of her siblings fits with the sentiments expressed in "I Am Free" a little more naturally than my theory.

Rosa and Gohda being in love I didn't expect. It certainly does explain why they end up working together to commit murder; to be an accomplice to murder, your relationship would have to be pretty strong, huh?

And a female goat-head makes a bit more sense than Rosa, I'll admit. I was just guessing, really.

Out of curiosity, what gave you the idea to make an Umineko musical? Or did it just come to you one day? It was a very amusing gameboard, and it was nice being entertained in between the scenes of grisly murder.

And you said we could request information after the game is complete. Well, while the solution's out of the bag, I am curious: how did Rosa and Gohda end up meeting and falling in love? It sounds like a very interesting story.

And speaking of interesting stories, any info on how Rosa, Maria, and Gohda are doing in the "Golden Land"?
>> No. 18531 edit
Heh, I should have really guessed the bit with the receipt. Overall, a very entertaining game.
I liked the foreshadowing for everything, and how all the locked rooms were different in some way so getting the solution wasn't just guessing around.
...
I also never would have guessed Rosa and Gohda being in love. Was there anything in the story that was meant to hint at it? Well, it DOES make more sense than her just 'hiring' him or something. (and caring enough not to kill him like the rest)

Well, thanks for this gameboard.
>> No. 18533 edit
>>18529

The idea for the musical? In truth I was just driving to work one day, with my music on shuffle, and Let It Go was followed by Birth of a New Witch. I remember thinking, "Heh, the gold never bothered her anyway." After that, one thing just led to another. I do owe a lot to Cheshire, though. If he hadn't groaned at the line when I brought it up in Skype, it may never have come to pass. If I make someone groan, that just tells me I'm onto something, and I can't just, ahem, let it go.

Strangely enough, there's not much to tell about Gohda and Rosa's romance. It was very simple, which is one of the reasons why Rosa liked it so much. Gohda was hired, they met, hit it off, and fell in love. Rosa had to spend much more time on the island helping Natsuhi and Krauss maintain the illusion of her father, so there was plenty of time for romance to bloom. Lots of secret walks in the forest and along the beach, a few romantic dinners in the Golden Room, things like that. He also was a good surrogate father for Maria, much better than any of the failed romances Rosa had been in since Maria's real father left. In short, theirs was a simple and pure romance, except for the whole serial murder thing.

As for how they're doing? Well, I haven't found any evidence of them, but that isn't surprising considering they changed their names. However, I like to think that they're doing just fine. Maybe Gohda is a celebrity chef. Maybe Rosa is a successful designer. Maybe Maria's gotten all grown up and had children of her own, though I hope she still practices her special magic and has passed it on. Who knows? I'm content letting them have their own catbox, so that they can always be happy.

>>18531

I'm glad you liked it!

Yeah, there wasn't much to hint at the Gohda/Rosa relationship in the story, which I felt a little bad about, but then again they were trying to hide their relationship, so there wasn't much I felt I could do. If you could have seen the parts that I had to cover with magic, you'd have actually seen quite a bit more romance, especially when he caught her after she jumped from the window. As it was, though, the best I could do was have a bit of an ambiguous smile in the scene where they're with Shannon in the kitchen. The pride was felt by Rosa, but it was the fact that she loved him that made her smile at it. Other than that, it was more relying on the idea that, as Calvin said, it made for a much stronger motive than just persuasion or hiring him.

Last edited at 15/11/17(Tue)17:57:58

>> No. 18534 edit
I just noticed something. The final FANTASY scene ("Finale") describes Battler as being shot in the forehead. In truth, he was shot from behind. While Battler's death was certainly the least mysterious of the bunch, it does lead me to think about the other clever tricks played and misdirection executed. Such as how Maria doesn't open the door for Rosa in the FANTASY segment. I got so hung up on that as a "clue" that I ignored alternate possibilities for awhile.

Basically, this board had some really great misdirection. Even the red was always very carefully worded to avoid spoiling the truth. You gamemastered the board very impressively in my opinion.

Well... there's not much more to say. Thanks again for this gameboard. It was a lot of fun, and I really enjoyed coming up with theory after theory, even if I wasn't the best at cracking some of these locked rooms. So long for now, and hopefully I get to engage you in some more gameboard-style debate soon.

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