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20299 No. 20299 edit
Prologue

"...Hm? Who goes there?" A voice speaks to you from the other side of the room. Where exactly 'the room' you're in is, you have no idea. Your memory is a blur. For thepast few minutes, you've been trying to get your bearings. Recall how you'd gotten to this strange place. But it just wasn't coming to you. And worse yet -- the more you thought about it -- you realized that you couldn't remember what day it was. Or the days leading up to your current predicament. Or your childhood. Or your name.

Somehow, it appears, you've lost your memory.

"Aah. I see." The voice speaks once more. As you finally muster the strength to lift your head, you see that the source is that of a beautiful blonde woman. One you don't recognize. Well, no surprise there, right? "Another guest, it seems. And one with no memory. What shame! ...Or should I consider this a blessing?" She lets out a quiet laugh. Followed by an elongated sigh. "...No. People like you can never truly be considered a blessing, can they...?" She wasn't making any sense.

You try to speak, but words simply refuse to come out. "Don't bother talking." She says simply. "You lack the proper form for such privilege." Another laugh. "...Oh, come now. Don't look at me like that. I'm not the one who put you in this position."

Who has, though?

"No clue." It's as if she's reading your mind. "What I do know, however, is that by some fate, you've wound up on my door. What a curse upon your soul must lie!" A giggle. "...Well then. Shall we begin? Surely, you don't want to drag this out?"

Begin what? Drag what out?

"You cannot leave this room. That's an undeniable fact. I can't either, as it turns out. So why don't we pass the time with a game? It's quite a simple one, really. All you need to do...

...Is prove that I don't exist."

154 posts omitted. Last 50 shown. Expand all images
>> No. 20459 edit
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20459
>>20458
".....Hoh. After all that searching around the maze, to get so close. Impressive. Perhaps that fall onto the gameboard managed to get those thought processes working...? Kihihihi.

Well. You got it. Sort of. The main concept, at least.

'The Emerald Pearl' is a secret massive infrastructure buried deep in the lower parts of Rokkenjima. One that would, you guessed it, allow Rokkenjima to lift up and fly upon activation! At the time of Ange's murder, Rokkenjima was flying over the city (which, at that point, was certainly not a 100km away). Ange's body was thrown off of it, and it landed on the rooftop. The island then circled back, and an hour and a half later, the distance was, as stated in red at the time, a 100km! The shaking and the subsequent destruction on the island at the end of the story is the result of the island badly landing!

Most of the people on the island never even knew that all of this was going on to begin with because they had barely stepped far away from the mansion, much less went to the shore! (The size of the island compared to the size of the mansion was so big that they wouldn't have experienced much turbulence, either.) The initial lift-off was not mentioned in the story because it occurred while Battler was unconscious. Most other people believed that the rumbling and quaking that was going on during lift-off was actually just the result of loud thunder and the storm in general!

This is the truth!


...Well, a part of it, at least. Don't be so cocky to think I'm just going to hand over Ange's death to you completely.

It actually took you long enough to suggested it, but I'm afraid that Genji's account of events (in other words, the events which he claimed happened when speaking to Kyrie and the others in regards to Ange's disappearance from the room) is completely true!

And as for your final point, the person speaking in the aforementioned paragraph is, indeed, Rudolf! "
>> No. 20460 edit
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20460
Perhaps you should have shot me sooner. These new brain cells seem to be able to grasp your brand of crazy.

New blue truth regarding a whydunnit: The only ones we see Kinzo interact with is Battler and Erika. The reason the culprit led them to the body is so they'd be able to identify him. However, after the two left, the body was removed because no one else would recognize the corpse as Kinzo's.
>> No. 20461 edit
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20461
>>20460
"Had the others seen the body Erika and Battler had found, they would have positively identified it as the body of Ushiromiya Kinzo! And, of course, the body Erika and Battler found was indeed that of Ushiromiya Kinzo!

I suppose when you get down to it, when thinking about this kind of whydunnit, you first have to consider what kind of person the culprit had to have been and what their overall objectives might've been (if they even had any true ones).

But silly me. That almost sounds like me trying to help you! ...We can't exactly have that, can we?"
>> No. 20462 edit
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20462
The red states there are no accidental deaths. This includes the crash that killed almost everyone at the end. The culprit crashed the island on purpose. The purpose of the crazy murders earlier were to get everyone to run around like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off, so no one would notice the island was being flown about for the express purpose of crashing it. The idea being that it's better this family dies with the island then for the Emerald Pearl to fall into the wrong hands.
>> No. 20463 edit
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20463
>>20462
"That's all well and good but recall that the win condition is merely the howdunnit. And, if I might point out, this particular 'why' doesn't exactly contribute to understanding the culprit's actions, much less the illusions that hid them!

Either way -- no reason to confirm nor deny. You know the drill at this point, I'm sure."

Last edited at 17/04/01(Sat)14:34:27
>> No. 20465 edit
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20465
If I can understand the "why," I can begin to understand the "who," and once I know the who, everything else starts falling into place.

Anyway, The culprit was able to go to Battler's room without breaking his/her alibi, because the people (s)he was with at the time were right outside the door, in on what they thought was a prank. When the gun went off in Krauss's room, they didn't think the one who went into Battler's room had anything to do with it, so they confirmed the alibi without a second thought.

On that note, if the above turns out to be true, Jessica and Ange were the pair involved in the above prank, since their alibi statement doesn't place them in a specific location.

Last edited at 17/04/01(Sat)22:44:49
>> No. 20466 edit
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20466
>>20465
"Motives can always be stretched and made to fit. And while it's possible to figure out given all the hints in the story, the dots to connect are quite scattered about. And even once you connect them, you'll still be left with alternatives and other possible explanations. That's usually why in most mystery novels, it's the first two questions - the whodunnit and the howdunnit - that are figured out first. Then, that conclusion is checked with the story as a way to figure out if a whydunnit could be worked out.

The reason the question of motive was brought up to begin with was more in regards to understanding why a certain crime happened, not why the overall incident occurred. It's a line of thinking that may not really bring you to the culprit or the answer to the trick itself, but rather open up different interpretations, if that makes sense.

But still. You don't have to take my word for it. Ultimately your choice. But you should assume that I will have no responsibility to respond to any blues in regards to a motive.

Onto your theory:

Had the culprit done something like you suggest, the people who were with them would've definitely been considered accomplices for hiding something like that, regardless of their intentions or thoughts on the matter! Or, to turn it around, the person that would've claimed to have been with the culprit would've definitely said something like you suggest happened!"

Last edited at 17/04/02(Sun)06:08:07
>> No. 20468 edit
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20468
Regarding the alibi, is this applicable? Van Dine's 20th, subsection d: It is forbidden to use a dummy figure to create an alibi.

Regarding the crash at the end, the deaths that happened here can be considered murders as well, and thus any body Battler can positively identify is not the culprit. Admittedly, this would only definitively remove Natsuhi from the list, since the identification of Sanon sounded she could only be identified by the hair and clothes, which should be easy enough to fake.

Last edited at 17/04/02(Sun)09:25:19
>> No. 20469 edit
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20469
>>20468
"While it should be obvious that a giant flying island probably isn't quite Van Dine's or Knox's brand of tea, this one I can easily acknowledge. It is forbidden to use a dummy figure to create an alibi.

As for your second request..."

The woman stops, smiles, and suddenly begins... giggling?

"Pffft... Yeah-- Pfthihihi... Yeah-- Pftahahahaha... Yeah, okay. Okay. Sorry about that. No problem. I'll even make it clear in red. Nobody that died in the aftermath of the island's crash can be the culprit. I'll throw in a bonus! Natsuhi is dead. Sanon is dead. Neither of them can, therefore, be the culprit!"
>> No. 20470 edit
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20470
It appears we are still alive. Thanks for taking that bullet for me.

Let's be thorough with that dummy figure.
There is a person with a body that can be in two places at once. Something like formerly conjoined twins that still only count as one body or something weird like that.

Alternatively, human-like robots are actually a thing and the culprit used one.

Now that we're in this floating paradise, we have to let loose a little, right?
>> No. 20471 edit
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20471
Thank you. Just wanted to make sure the description of the wreckage wasn't taking place solely in Meta Space.

Anyway, revising my previous blue. Both the culprit and the person(s) providing the alibi were in Battler's room at the same time, ergo, they can legitimately confirm that the exact location of the culprit wasn't in Krauss's room.

Last edited at 17/04/02(Sun)12:22:52
>> No. 20472 edit
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20472
>>20470
"The looser you get, the tigther I'll make the noose.

There is no person on the island that has a body that can be in two places at the same time.
Two people cannot be considered as having the same body.
No such thing as human-like robots exist. This includes androids, holograms, AI and anything even remotely similar.
The person Battler saw in his room was definitely a human being!
No person on the island would mistake someone that wasn't human as a human, regardless of how life-like they might appear. Nobody would intentionally acknowledge one as one, either!
"

>>20472
"I'll never allow it. The only people in the room at the time were Battler and the other human!"

Last edited at 17/04/02(Sun)12:27:30
>> No. 20473 edit
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20473
The culprit changed a few clocks to make his/her alibi provider(s) think they were with them at a different time than what they were.

No person on the island would mistake someone that wasn't human as a human, regardless of how life-like they might appear. Nobody would intentionally acknowledge one as one, either! This includes people seen in a mirror.

Last edited at 17/04/02(Sun)12:43:50
>> No. 20474 edit
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20474
>>20473
"No clocks were tampered with during the course of the entire game!

And even so, your logic simply doesn't hold up, does iiit? Surely, everyone would remember the people who were with them when they heard the gunshot and ran uuuup?!

As for your other idea... I'm not sure I understand. If I said it did, it would mean a person denied their own existence just by looking in a mirror. If, on the other hand, you mean to suggest the culprit used some sort of mirror trick that made someone believe the culprit was in the room with them at the time of their supposed alibi when they actually weren't -- apologies, but that simply isn't the case."

Last edited at 17/04/02(Sun)12:40:07
>> No. 20475 edit
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20475
The culprit was able to construct a false alibi by claiming they were with a person who had no alibi. The person without an alibi went along with it because they didn't want people to know they had no alibi. This makes them, not an accomplice, but an accessory.

Last edited at 17/04/02(Sun)12:47:31
>> No. 20476 edit
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20476
>>20475
"My apologies once again, but such a scenario WOULD indeed make the person in question an accomplice!

Kihihi... And to think, I was under the impression you'd see through this trick right away...!"
>> No. 20477 edit
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20477
The alibi only works up to the time of the gunshot. After that, the culprit could have went into Battler's room without their alibi noticing. How did they get into the room before the gunshot though? There was a second gunshot that Battler didn't hear.

Last edited at 17/04/02(Sun)12:53:05
>> No. 20478 edit
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20478
>>20477
"There was only one gunshot during the course of the game! In addition, nothing merely resembling or something that could be potentially mistaken for a gunshot occurred, either!"

Last edited at 17/04/02(Sun)12:58:18
>> No. 20479 edit
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20479
One group heard the gunshot later than the others.
Even sound needs time to travel.
The culprit was able to return there before they heard it.

>> No. 20480 edit
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20480
>>20479
"Everyone heard the gunshot at the same time."
>> No. 20481 edit
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20481
The culprit hypnotized someone into thinking (s)he was with them the whole time.

Alternately, it wasn't the culprit who was in Battler's room, thus if anyone provides a false alibi to that intruder, they wouldn't be considered an accomplice.

Last edited at 17/04/02(Sun)14:23:33
>> No. 20482 edit
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20482
>>20481
"I acknowledge it!

The person who came to visit Battler was not the culprit! Their alibi was faked (by someone or a group of people -- the culprit is not one of these people). The visitor rejoined with their respective group during the commotion that occurred after the gunshot and pretended as if they'd been with them since the beginning. The other party did not tell the others about the visitor's actions because, after Battler stated someone had been in his room, they immediately knew that it was the visitor and thus, that they had an alibi for the time of the shooting anyway. After all, the visitor had informed the other party that they would be going to Battler's room to 'play a prank on him'. Therefore, in the end, they had no reason to suspect the visitor of being the culprit. Naturally, the person or persons covering for the visitor are not accomplices, as their actions did not help the culprit's own plot at the time!

With this, I declare Krauss' murder to be solved in its entirety!


...I could say something more, but...

Let's not ruin the surprise just yet.

One more to go!"
>> No. 20483 edit
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20483
Excellent. Mind you, however, there's actually two howdunnits left to solve. Or did you forget about Ange disappearing from the locked room?

Now then, you denied the concept of removing the study door from its hinges. However, my blue truth regarding the corpse mover entering the room after Battler broke in, but before Erika sealed it still stands.
>> No. 20484 edit
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20484
>>20483
"Hooh... My memory isn't what it used to be, I'm afraid. I guess I just got too excited over you discovering the exciting part of that murder.

In any case, I have no need to deny your blue until you tell me what would've hypothetically occured afterwards in that scenario."
>> No. 20485 edit
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20485
The duct tape was placed "above the doorknob - between the door and the frame."

This refers to the seal having been placed on a chain lock, ala Dawn of the Golden Witch. The corpse mover simply manipulated the lock using a coat hanger or something.
>> No. 20486 edit
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20486
One more thing, these meta breaks? Not as meta as you'd have me believe. Showing me Ange's corpse on the rooftop, you simply flew the Emerald Pearl back to the scene of the crime after all was said and done. Furthermore, there's something odd about the way you laughed when I asked you to confirm that the corpses Battler identified weren't culprits. Not only that, but your red didn't mention anything about Battler being the one to confirm their deaths. But then, I remembered... Your narrative said I was the one to find their bodies, yet I have amnesia. I am not Ushiromiya Battler, I am the culprit. Although, I clearly have no memory of this.

Last edited at 17/04/02(Sun)22:45:44
>> No. 20487 edit
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20487
>>20485
"You will find no wordplay here. The duct tape was not placed on a chain lock. It is as the narration says - it was placed between the doorframe and the door itself! Kinzo's study has no chain lock!

>>20486
"I'm afraid not.

The meta-scenes truly were just that. It would be pointless of me to trick you there when the game master went out of her way to tell you it was a meta-scene with an objective point of view.

But hey. I won't let that spoil the fun. You are right about one thing.

The game is over. This is no longer a part of the story's main events. Therefore, the narrator does not have to be Ushiromiya Battler.

The two of us are the only humans left alive.

I am the person that visited Battler.

Battler is no longer on this island.

The culprit could not have died or left the island in this time, either.

So, congratulations! Through sheer process of simple elimination --

You're right!

T H E

C U L P R I T

I S

Y O U !


Kyahahahahaha!

Oh...? You don't remember?

Tsk-tsk. Might be explained by that head injury you got yourself from the crash. But no worries. I've promised to tell you who you are, haven't I...?

...As soon as you solve the last of the problems."

Last edited at 17/04/03(Mon)12:04:19
>> No. 20488 edit
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20488
Amnesia sucks. You can respond to this one or not, since it doesn't really solve anything, but Battler is still alive; however, as you said, he's no longer on this island.

Back to the matter at hand, the duct tape's adhesive was stuck to the door and the doorframe. It was not wedged between the door and doorframe like Eva's receipt.

Last edited at 17/04/03(Mon)12:39:26
>> No. 20489 edit
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20489
>>20488
"Why spoil all surprises...?

In any case. I can already see this could turn into you trying to get into technicalities with me right down to me having to define what a door is, so let's just cut it all out in one, once and for all.

The seal on the door would've been broken had the door opened in any way between the time it was set by Erika and the time she and Battler returned with the others. And hey, I'm feeling extra generous, so let's put you away from all these pesky dark woods. The positioning of the seal did not affect the culprit's actions in the slightest! Or should I have said 'your actions'...? Kihihi!"
>> No. 20490 edit
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20490
Based on the Ship of Theseus information I picked up, I must have had access to a teleportation device of some kind. Before I could use it on myself, I had to test it on Kinzo to make sure it didn't mess up his molecular configuration, and after that finished, I tested it on Ange to make sure it worked on someone living.
>> No. 20491 edit
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20491
>>20490
"This is some small bomb-tier shit right there, son! I love it! The culprit had no access to, nor did they use any sort of teleporation device. That applies for teleporting in general!"

Last edited at 17/04/03(Mon)14:57:12
>> No. 20492 edit
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20492
Since you were so kind as to define the technicalities regarding the door, the seals on the windows would have been broken had the windows been opened in any way, shape, or form.

Actually, let me try this. Kinzo won't be born for another several years. Except, that can't happen now because Krauss is dead. That's right, I claim Kinzo was erased from existence via grandfather paradox.

Last edited at 17/04/03(Mon)17:15:55
>> No. 20493 edit
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20493
>>20492
"The seals on the windows would have been broken had the windows been opened in any way, shape, or form.

And no -- Kinzo was not erased from existence by the grandfather paradox. Or erased from existence to begin with. His body still exists and is on the island."
>> No. 20494 edit
At least one seal was placed much later than the others.
>> No. 20495 edit
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20495
>>20494
"All of the seals were placed at roughly the same time by Erika, at the point stated in the story."
>> No. 20496 edit
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20496
Someone changed the boundaries of what is considered Kinzo's study by building an additional wall.
>> No. 20497 edit
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20497
>>20496
"Hoh. It's interesting that for a mystery featuring a flying island, this is the part where I, of all people, step in and question probability.

Firstly, the culprit would've had no time to build an entire wall. But even beyond that - there's a ridiculous amount of issues. One - the culprit would've needed to be in the room at some point after Battler and Erika left to build it. How would they have left? Barricated themself in with Kinzo? In that case, how did everyone manage to gather in the study upon Erika and Battler's return? Nobody was missing then, I assure you. If you're going to suggest something like - 'they built a wall and created a separate room, and in this seperate room was a secret passage that led to another part of the mansion' or something, it's still not possible because it would mean that a secret passage existed at some point in Kinzo's study, which, given the reds, I will not allow...!"
>> No. 20498 edit
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20498
>>20497

...Kinzo's study is also the control center of the flying island. As part of takeoff procedure, the floor slides to a different position, likely either up or down. At that point it is part of the 'control room.' This can be accessed through other means than 'Kinzo's study.' The culprit then removed Kinzo's body and sent the floor back to its original position.
>> No. 20503 edit
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20503
This is starting to seem unlikely, but I feel inclined to make it work if you leave it like that.

The "wall" already existed then. The culprit just moved it into position and added the final touches.
Afterwards, once they were no longer considered to be inside Kinzo's study, they just dug (or punched) their way through another wall to get out.

This way there was no secret passage in Kinzo's study at any point.
>> No. 20505 edit
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20505
>>20498
"This... isn't the case, but given everything solved up to this point, the theories suggested, I feel like at this point it would feel as if this is turning into a guessing game. Not to mention that through denying theories that aren't the case, I've made the mystery into more of a wordplay than anything else.

So, I give Kinzo's study over to you.

The culprit never had to even enter Kinzo's study to get rid of Kinzo's body.

There are two rooms - shall we call them room A and room B. They are entirely identical in appearance - that of what you would believe is Kinzo's study, with one exception. One has the controls to the Emerald Pearl, as assumed. Let's say that's room A. The rooms are both located on the top floor, next to each other, but only one of them is visible and accessible at the time. By 'visible and accessible', I mean that it can be entered through the windows or doors. In such a state, the 'visible and accessible' room is considered Kinzo's study.

There exists a switch in the hidden room at the end of the corridor, which , when flipped, pushes the currently visible room to the side. But in a way in which the two opposite walls - the ones that have the door and the windows - stay in their place. The rest - the ceiling, the floor and the two remaining walls to the side - move. The other room is then brought into position and becomes visible and accessible - and is therefore 'Kinzo's study'. The room that was pushed no longer has any doors nor windows nor any other way of leaving it, aside from being pushed back into the position and becoming Kinzo's study once more.

In other words - this is what happened. When Battler and Erika showed up, Kinzo was in Room A. When they left, the culprit flipped the switch from the outside, causing Room A to shift to the side, and in its place came Room B. Room B, obviously, did not have Kinzo's corpse in it. But Room B became Kinzo's study. Therefore - Kinzo's body was no longer in Kinzo's study! The seals, in addition, were also undisturbed, given that the walls having the windows and the door remained in place. Room A stopped being Kinzo's study. Because there is no direct or hidden link between the rooms A and B, the red regarding there being no secret passages remains in place. Because room B takes place of room A and is 'accessible', and in place of where Kinzo's study should be - and can be accessed through the door to Kinzo's study and the windows to Kinzo's study -- it becomes Kinzo's study! Room A, not having any of these conditions, can thus no longer be considered Kinzo's study.

This is the extent of Paradox of Theseus' ship.


Because of the fact that it has been realized (in my opinion, at least) that some sort of trick involving changing the conditions of the room, I see no need to torture you anymore. Our time left is short, anyway.

...Therefore, there is only one mystery remaining!"

Last edited at 17/04/05(Wed)03:55:52
>> No. 20506 edit
Ange hid herself somewhere in the room that Genji didn't check. Either that, or she moved to a spot he'd already checked before he could get to her original hiding spot. After Genji unlocked the door and left, Ange hightailed it out of there.
>> No. 20507 edit
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20507
>>20506
"There was nowhere in the room Ange could've hidden, in any manner, in which she wouldn't have been found by Genji! This includes the scenario in which she could've moved to a spot he'd already checked!
>> No. 20508 edit
>>20507

Ange fell through a triggered trap door in her room, dying on impact with the rooftop below.
>> No. 20509 edit
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20509
>>20508
"This time, let's not play around. There are no other ways outside or inside of Ange's room besides the door and the windows. The door was locked. The windows were locked. The windows can only be locked from the inside of the room. Genji did not lock them. To avoid making you think I pulled the same trick twice - Ange's room was not redefined at any point. Ange's room is a room inside the mansion. There are no special mechanisms in place here and no special mechanisms aided in Ange's disappearance!
>> No. 20510 edit
>>20509


Then I am Asune. The alibis given for taking care of Battler said "pretty much" the whole time. Using the master key I opened the door to Ange's room and either pushed her out the window and locked out behind her before leaving, or lured her out and killed her elsewhere. Either way the body was then dumped off the island.

>> No. 20511 edit
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20511
>>20510
"Asune and Sanon really were with Battler the entire time while he was unconscious!"
>> No. 20512 edit
>>20511

The definition of 'locked' in the case of this door only states that the lock was engaged, not that it was performing its function. It had been tampered with previously such that it would appear locked but the door would still open. This was done by someone who was definitely in the room prior to then, per narration. Jessica.
>> No. 20513 edit
File 149142754356.png - (174.93KB , 572x600 , bea_b12_hanbeso1.png )
20513
>>20512
"The door was not tampered with in any way. It was performing the function a door would when 'locked'. In other words, it could not be opened without using a key to unlock it first!"
>> No. 20514 edit
File 149101120741.png - (66.78KB , 192x192 , IMG_0624.png )
20514
The door needn't be closed in order to lock it. As long as it's not a dead bolt, it's possible to lock the door before it closes, then close the door, with no one being the wiser.

Also, the door can be locked without using a key.
>> No. 20516 edit
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20516
>>20514
"The door had to be closed to be locked and a key had to be used to lock it!"

_____________________________

New thread: >>20515

Mainly because I bothered to type out the epilogue to this and it's turning out to be long as shit.

Continue to post your theories there, as per usual.


Last edited at 17/04/05(Wed)14:35:04
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