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File 144778727488.png - (442.83KB , 640x480 , chess2.png )
20560 No. 20560 edit
I’m opening a new game for anyone who wishes to try and solve it. The more the merrier.

This game is slightly different than most of my gameboards but will be fairly simple. This thread will act as the tearoom and I will dictate what is happening on the gameboard level. After I make a post with [Discussion Open] in it you will be allowed to post your thoughts and ask me questions.

During this time you may even make blue theories however just like in the novel I won’t be obligated to answer in until the end of the game where you will be tasked to explain all the mysteries. I ask you don’t write up a huge analysis in one post for the discussion segments so we can address individual points more easily.

I will post [End of Discussion] once we have decided to move on and I will continue posting the rest of the story until the next one or the end of the game. As you can expect the goal is simple but traditional; you have to explain the events on the gameboard using humans means before the end of the final debate.

There will likely be a real life time-limit to the final debate in order to prevent the game from dragging on too long. The pain of not knowing the answer will continue if you fail to solve it.

The difficulty is… well I usually only make one of those for serious games. This game is very loose to say the least.


The first part will be posted in the upcoming days.
84 posts omitted. Last 50 shown. Expand all images
>> No. 20805 edit
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They could've carried Krauss' body outside the mansion after killing him and then threw his body into the courtyard across the wall. Unless the courtyard has a roof over it or something, it should've been possible as long as they had a ladder/rope/whatever. This method also doesn't require entering the courtyard through any doors or windows, so no contradiction there either.

From that point, they simply carried him into the boiler room as suggested earlier.
>> No. 20806 edit
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I think you overestimate Genji`s abilities. Eva and Hideyoshi started talking to him right after he came downstairs. In other words Genji would not have had time to do that.

I see, so they hauled his body over the mansion roof and threw them into the courtyard from there. Reminds me of one of Kinjo`s old games.

No person or dead body ever passed through the top opening of the courtyard during this game.
>> No. 20807 edit
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To clarify, Genji killed Krauss that night and took him down to the boiler room with the others. He stashed Krauss' body there, and it remained hidden when everyone "discovered" the electrical room corpses. When he was supposed to be checking the phones, he was killing Natsuhi, escaping after Kumasawa left, retriving Krauss' body from where it had been stashed, and stuffing it in the boiler.

>> No. 20808 edit
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My bad, I understand now. However if that were the case, I must ask, how would he slip past the red here >>20610 ?
>> No. 20809 edit
File 150734552341.jpg - (8.52KB , 299x169 , images.jpg )

As Genji would not have been carrying anything suspicious, there would have been no reason to suspect him even if they did notice him.


They were distracted and huddling around Kumasawa.


A second stairway leading down from Natsuhi's room, leading to the hall in such a way as he'd be passing the kitchen, then the boiler room, then the parlor, so he would NOT have passed the parlor.
>> No. 20810 edit
File 140989265188.png - (59.66KB , 640x480 , blade1r.png )
There is no second staircase.

They were never distracted enough to miss someone passing. They would have said something if Genji had.

After all they were waiting for him.
>> No. 20811 edit
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Time for the most anticipated movie of the year:


Ninja Genji killed Natsuhi and unlocked the door to make it seem like the culprit had escaped that way. However, in actuality he exited the window and went down into the boiler room. Then his accomplice, Battler,
was the one to check the window in Natsuhi's room. He locked it.

>> No. 20812 edit
File 130854339985.png - (65.08KB , 347x480 , ozaki_defa1.png )
There is a red here about using the courtyard windows.

>> No. 20813 edit
File 148943033081.png - (104.39KB , 415x480 , bu3_majimea3s.png )
Gohda was an accomplice. The body was thrown out of the window, and then moved from the side of the hallway that would've required moving past the kitchen door. Gohda (or one of the culprits) was the one to move the body to the boiler room. This way, it would've never been seen by anyone in the parlor.

If you try to deny it with Gohda not being involved - fair enough then: Gohda was too distracted to notice the body was being moved from the direction of the hallway that would've required moving next to the kitchen.

And if you don't like those - well, you never denied Rune's blue of the body having being moved sometime before Kumasawa ever witnessed the door. Hell, he could've simply been killed and left in the incinerator sometime after he and Genji spoke, but before any of the survivors ever got to the boiler room to discover the first twilight, since the narration is unclear how apart the two events were. And hell, even if they were close - we don't know how long Genji and Eva were having their conversation. While Genji would not have had time to move around the body, someone else might've.

Last edited at 17/10/10(Tue)13:01:04
>> No. 20814 edit
File 130854339985.png - (65.08KB , 347x480 , ozaki_defa1.png )
Quite a lot of countermeasures there. Let's see what I can do.

We already established the body never went through a window so let's just say the body never passed by the kitchen in the hall.

As for the time between two scenes Eva and Hideyoshi started talking to Genji right as he came down the stairs. Genji going down the stairs was the same instance for both scenes. I don't want to start giving minutes or numbers to make it any more complicated, so it was almost immediately.
>> No. 20815 edit
File 135343152050.png - (96.60KB , 415x480 , avbb1.png )
No issue if that scene with Genji and Krauss talking never actually happened. If I assume, say, George is the detective, it's really only Genji's word against the world's.
>> No. 20816 edit
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Indeed... I will relinquish this mystery.

I did say I was playing as a witch after all. You can consider this a point for the human side. You don't need to debate this mystery any further to win, only if you want more details or are just curious (will still have to use blue though). All will be revealed at the end if you win either way.

Feel free to choose the next topic.
>> No. 20817 edit
File 148896931990.png - (104.79KB , 415x480 , bu3_futekia4.png )
Well, might as well keep on going with the Genji train.

Genji created the library trick as mentioned before - put the key there, locked door from the outside. He then went to the bathroom, setting the chain from the inside.
He then placed Kumasawa and Gohda's bodies in the tub, shut off the lights, threw the cables into the tub. He then stuck a stake in his eye - this didn't kill him. Then, he went into the tub, first covered his mouth in duct tape, then bound his legs, then tied himself to the others, and finally tied his hands.

>> No. 20820 edit
File 13774781387.png - (805.99KB , 1366x768 , ozaki_38.png )
Genji is a skilled fellow I see.

None of the people found in the study bathroom set the chain lock.
>> No. 20821 edit
File 135351726645.png - (96.67KB , 415x480 , avbb2.png )
The person who set the chain lock left the room through the window, which was then closed by one of the three people found.

Best to keep it general.
>> No. 20822 edit
File 130854339985.png - (65.08KB , 347x480 , ozaki_defa1.png )
Maybe, maybe not.

The window was never locked by the three found in the room.
>> No. 20823 edit
File 148943033081.png - (104.39KB , 415x480 , bu3_majimea3s.png )
the window was never locked to begin with
>> No. 20824 edit
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Looks like I have to give this one away too. Another point to the humans.

I'm running low now. So let's tackle the big one.

The door to the electrical rooms were never opened again after they were locked following the discovery of the first twilight. Thus even if Kyrie and Rudolf faked their deaths they would have been trapped there.
>> No. 20825 edit
File 148890858970.png - (104.95KB , 415x480 , bu3_nayamua3.png )
They never had to be opened again. After all, as I said - Genji had left a trail of holes behind!
>> No. 20826 edit
File 130854339985.png - (65.08KB , 347x480 , ozaki_defa1.png )
Man those must have been some large holes.

The holes were not large enough for a person to fit through.
>> No. 20827 edit
File 148902005188.png - (104.68KB , 415x480 , bu3_waraia1s.png )
Buuuut if there had been small holes in the doors BEFORE the bodies were ever found... holes through which someone could've thrown keys in... holes whose existence would've been covered up by Genji using the blowtorch on the doors...

Then I could argue that Battler locked room 3 with C key, locked room 2 with B key, threw B key through a small hole in the door, put C key in room 1 and then simply locked the last door from the outside with A key - which he ended up planting later...

Then I guess no fake bodies are necessary.
>> No. 20833 edit
File 150734365024.png - (12.75KB , 500x480 , mar_o12.png )
Room 1, Room 2 and Room 3 could be unlocked with Key A and Key B or even Key C
This would explain how Room 3 is locked even though there's no key for Room 3

Last edited at 17/10/12(Thu)16:14:18
>> No. 20840 edit
File 130854339985.png - (65.08KB , 347x480 , ozaki_defa1.png )
Well that is one what to think about it, The group would have noticed if Battler had pretended to find the key. After all it was a pretty small room.

Not quite sure what you mean. The key to each room was part of the set up and the ones you described.
>> No. 20841 edit
File 150734365024.png - (12.75KB , 500x480 , mar_o12.png )

Sorry, I'll rephrase that:
One key could lock and unlock all the rooms.
For example: Key A not only locks room 1 but also rooms 2 and 3.
Key B not only locks room 2 but also rooms 1 and 3
And Key C can unlock all the rooms

>> No. 20843 edit
File 130854339985.png - (65.08KB , 347x480 , ozaki_defa1.png )
Ah I see, in that case I think this red denies that. >>20598
>> No. 20845 edit
File 150734365024.png - (12.75KB , 500x480 , mar_o12.png )
Shannon and Kanon are not dead. George looked away from Shannon and Kanon corpses, as said in the narration, that way they could have pretended to be dead
>> No. 20846 edit
You say that the rooms were locked after the first twilight. But that's not specific enough.

The locking could very well have happened after someone faking their death had already escaped.
>> No. 20847 edit
File 13777552616.png - (941.57KB , 1366x768 , ozaki_54.png )
I was going to point Vianfour to the red I made but it looks like Dwam is challenging its validity.

The door was locked immediately after the group left the room. As narrated at the end of the first section. The bodies were covered just beforehand too, and Kumasawa and Maria were in the main area so it would have been hard to escape.
>> No. 20848 edit
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Genji threw the keys in just as he cut in the holes. Nobody would've been looking due to the sparks.
>> No. 20849 edit
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But they were looking at the door beforehand.

Someone in the group would have spoke up if there was a hole in the door large enough to pass a key through. Not like the keys were right next to the doors anyway.
>> No. 20850 edit
File 150802681674.png - (199.68KB , 347x480 , ozaki_lazysong.png )
My bad, Genji did not throw the keys in as he cut the doors.

Nice idea though.
>> No. 20852 edit
File 150739491643.jpg - (53.20KB , 750x612 , edogawa-conan_o_170086.jpg )

The keys discovered no longer fit the locks on the three doors. The locks have been changed, and three different keys are now the 'three keys to that section of the boiler room.'
>> No. 20853 edit
File 131959014367.png - (197.07KB , 357x434 , ozakitwe.png )
The discovered keys are the keys to that section of the boiler room.

That one was a stretch.
>> No. 20855 edit
File 148943033081.png - (104.39KB , 415x480 )
Hang on a sec, something doesn't make sense here.

You've established the following:
- The holes Genji cut in were not big enough to fit a person through.
- The only keys to the doors - the only way to lock them - is with the keys. It would stand to reason then, that the only way to UNLOCK them would be with the keys as well.
- We can assume, for the time being, that those keys were in the rooms (it doesn't actually matter though; the only important thing is that the group believed the keys were missing).

My question is this:

How did, by cutting the doors, Genji ever unlock the doors/ how did the group that found the bodies enter the rooms?

Well, the logical conclusion would be that Genji either:
- Cut out the lock. (Impossible, given that they'd promptly locked the doors upon leaving.)
- There was a way to unlock the door from inside of the room without the usage of the keys. Genji cut a hole to fit his arm through and just moved a latch or something. (But that would also be impossible. If such a latch/chain/bolt existed, then reasonably, you'd have to be able to lock the doors with it too, given that only the keys are allowed to lock them.)

Sooo... how did the group ever enter get through these doors, exactly? Before you denied it, I was just under the impression the holes were big enough to fit a person through and they just stepped in. Afterwards, I just figured the locks had been cut off or something. When that was denied by stating the doors were locked after they left, I was going to suggest Genji had used the keys he secretly had on him to unlock the doors from the inside before throwing them in. That, however, was denied too.

Soooooooooo what gives?
>> No. 20856 edit
File 137739506911.png - (802.53KB , 1080x768 , ozaki_94.png )
You are right. I was careless and seemed to have made a logic error. I caught myself on this during the first discussion but didn't realize the narrative was wrong and made new reds based on it. You can consider this closed room won.

To clarify for the sake of the rest of the mystery, assume they sealed the door somehow when leaving rather than locking it. Maybe welding it shut. The keys can unlock and lock the door, but like you said the locks would not be functional anymore.

>> No. 20857 edit
File 148890858970.png - (104.95KB , 415x480 , bu3_nayamua3.png )
Let's just try the easiest solution.

I stand by my previous theory of either Kyrie, Rudolf or both faking their deaths and constructing the locked rooms. They, however, never left it.

Another human killed the people in the study.

>> No. 20859 edit
File 130854339985.png - (65.08KB , 347x480 , ozaki_defa1.png )
If these crimes were committed by humans then There is no more than 1 culprit; a person who kills. There may or may not be an accomplice.
>> No. 20861 edit
Doesn't change a thing for me, since if one person killed the others and Rudolf and Kyrie (or just one of them) only helped with the construction of the locked room, and never left the rooms since, there's no contradiction with the red.
>> No. 20863 edit
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Right, but you were using your previous theory. So if Rudolf or Kyrie only helped to make the closed room then one person must have done everything else.

They dealt with Natsuhi and Krauss, placed the letter, killed everyone in the study. If not Rudolf or Kyrie then...?
>> No. 20864 edit
File 135351726645.png - (96.67KB , 415x480 , avbb2.png )
I guess Jessica could've very well done it while she was in the bathroom. Gotten Maria to cover for her.
>> No. 20865 edit
File 13083791693.png - (65.07KB , 347x480 , ozaki_defa2.png )
It is good you noticed that, but let me add some red elsewhere.

Natsuhi's door really was locked when Kumasawa found it.
Nobody living was inside the room at the time.
Natsuhi's key was also inside at the time.

Jessica naturally was in the parlor so they wouldn't have been able to do everything if Rudolf or Kyrie were accomplices.
>> No. 20869 edit
File 135343152050.png - (96.60KB , 415x480 , avbb1.png )
Shit, iunno. Genji another accomplice - locked and unlocked the door with the master key?
>> No. 20871 edit
File 130854339985.png - (65.08KB , 347x480 , ozaki_defa1.png )
I think we are both running out of steam. I will just go ahead and confirm it. Genji was the only accomplice.
>> No. 20876 edit
File 148890858970.png - (104.95KB , 415x480 , bu3_nayamua3.png )
I mean, unless Genji was telling the truth about the labels on the keys, but lied about what they unlock, I'm kind of at a dead end here, honestly...
>> No. 20877 edit

The lock was non-functional. Meaning it could be 'locked' but the door could be opened. This fact wasn't discovered because they just pushed the door open.

Last edited at 17/10/18(Wed)10:01:53
>> No. 20878 edit
File 13083791693.png - (65.07KB , 347x480 , ozaki_defa2.png )
The door must be closed to be locked. I would assume the same for the chain lock since you normally have to close it first and set it.
>> No. 20879 edit
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I think you misconstrued my blue. I mean that the door could be shut, the lock mechanism could be turned and 'locked' but the door could then be opened. Possibly a jammed lock, cut lock, or otherwise broken locking mechanism.
>> No. 20931 edit
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Well I think you know the answer in that case.

The lock was functioning properly. When locked via deadbolt the door can't be opened.
>> No. 20938 edit
File 150726656048.png - (85.86KB , 335x490 , Face3.png )

When Kumasawa found the door to be locked,
she opened it herself. This was done either by picking it, or by using an additional master key that Genji never mentioned. Upon discovery of the crime scene, she realized that she would become the most suspicious,
so she left and lied about what happened to make it seem like someone else had escaped while she had been getting the group.

>> No. 20951 edit
File 130854339985.png - (65.08KB , 347x480 , ozaki_defa1.png )
There are no additional master keys. No locks were picked during this game.
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