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File 144778727488.png - (442.83KB , 640x480 , chess2.png )
20560 No. 20560 edit
I’m opening a new game for anyone who wishes to try and solve it. The more the merrier.

This game is slightly different than most of my gameboards but will be fairly simple. This thread will act as the tearoom and I will dictate what is happening on the gameboard level. After I make a post with [Discussion Open] in it you will be allowed to post your thoughts and ask me questions.

During this time you may even make blue theories however just like in the novel I won’t be obligated to answer in until the end of the game where you will be tasked to explain all the mysteries. I ask you don’t write up a huge analysis in one post for the discussion segments so we can address individual points more easily.

I will post [End of Discussion] once we have decided to move on and I will continue posting the rest of the story until the next one or the end of the game. As you can expect the goal is simple but traditional; you have to explain the events on the gameboard using humans means before the end of the final debate.

There will likely be a real life time-limit to the final debate in order to prevent the game from dragging on too long. The pain of not knowing the answer will continue if you fail to solve it.

The difficulty is… well I usually only make one of those for serious games. This game is very loose to say the least.


The first part will be posted in the upcoming days.
131 posts omitted. Last 50 shown. Expand all images
>> No. 20931 edit
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Well I think you know the answer in that case.

The lock was functioning properly. When locked via deadbolt the door can't be opened.
>> No. 20938 edit
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When Kumasawa found the door to be locked,
she opened it herself. This was done either by picking it, or by using an additional master key that Genji never mentioned. Upon discovery of the crime scene, she realized that she would become the most suspicious,
so she left and lied about what happened to make it seem like someone else had escaped while she had been getting the group.

>> No. 20951 edit
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There are no additional master keys. No locks were picked during this game.
>> No. 20970 edit
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I think I am a little late, but please allow me to challenge your mystery as well.

So... the red truth is making it hard to see how Natsuhi was murdered. But I still suspect Kumasawa!

Your red about Kumasawa is not useful, because Kumasawa went to Natsuhi's room more than one time. That means in another time she visited her room, Natsuhi was inside, allowed Kumasawa to come, and was killed!
>> No. 20971 edit
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Very well.

Kumasawa did not enter Natsuhi's room this entire game until the group went to investigate.
>> No. 20972 edit
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Then... perhaps Natsuhi killer did not require being in the same room to murder her. Otherwise! If we go by the strict definition of killing, Natsuhi commited suicide.
>> No. 20973 edit
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Naturally, Natsuhi was killed.

Your other blue doesn't deny magic in any way. How or who could have done that?
>> No. 20974 edit
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Let's say she was killed using a poisonous gas. It would even explain why Genji had to come later to unlock the room so the gas would vent.
>> No. 20975 edit
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Just because I'm playing as a witch doesn't mean the human side can.

They would have found evidence of it if poison gas was used.
>> No. 20976 edit
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First Twilight
Genji actually had all 3 keys on him before the door locks were even cut. The keys in the rooms with the labels were not actually the keys to the rooms.

There is no contradiction with the red, because:
The labels were never SWITCHED, they were TAKEN OFF the keys.
The keys really were as Genji said: Key C unlocked what it did, Key B unlocked what it did, Key A unlocked what it did -- but the keys they FOUND weren't A, B or C, and he never claimed they were - the exception being maybe Key C, but that one he could've planted on himself, since he was the one who'd picked it up. Or it could've just been left in the room, since it wouldn't have been necessary to plant it or carry it out. So thinking about it - Key C could've really been Key C and it could've actually just been in the room since the beginning, but A and B? Not a chance.

This way you can also claim the keys were in the room when the doors were broken down - because they were on Genji - and Genji WAS in the room.

And since the fake keys don't unlock shit - it also doesn't break the read about key A, B, C being the only keys able to open their respective doors!

As for the culprit - it was Rosa.

The body believed to belong to Rosa was Natsuhi's.
The person found in the tub was Rosa, who'd faked her death.

Explains the locked room just fine.

The murders in the study become simple after that.

Last edited at 17/10/24(Tue)01:16:55
>> No. 20988 edit
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>> No. 20989 edit
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The keys found really were keys A, B, and C.
>> No. 20990 edit
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Fuck it, I'm gonna have to shotgun this one.

The keys were slid in under the doors.

The culprit was hiding in one of the rooms and made their escape afterwards.

While there are no secret passages, the culprit could've been one of the people trapped in the room, pretending to be dead, and tampered with the pipes, causing them to rupture, which ultimately, despite Kinzo's measures, created a hole through one of the walls they were going through, which the culprit then used to escape. It is would not be 'secret', since anyone who'd gone down to the basement afterwards would've seen it.

The six victims of the first Twilight were tricked into participating a murder mystery game. The rooms were constructed with my Rudolf/Kyrie explanation. However, they ended up dying due to the culprit poisoning them. They weren't accomplices, because they weren't aware they were directly assisting the culprit's plans.

>> No. 20994 edit
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A key cannot be slid under any boiler room door.

Well you know the room was sealed and all that other jazz. Kind of hard to escape the rooms at the moment.

An escape hole was never made.

Nobody of the first twilight was poisoned to death.

>> No. 20995 edit
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The culprit could've been hiding and escaped while everyone was discovering the bodies.




Last edited at 17/10/24(Tue)15:34:59
>> No. 20998 edit
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That would make Kumasawa an accomplice right?

There are no passkeys used in this game. The keys are metal keys you use on locks.
>> No. 20999 edit
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There were pipes going through all three rooms. After locking all three rooms, from outside the room, the culprit, controlling the water flow and by strategically making holes in each of the rooms' section of the pipe beforehand, sent the keys down and had them delivered in each of the rooms.
>> No. 21000 edit
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They would have noticed water that splashed out of said holes. Would have to be fairly precise.
>> No. 21001 edit
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The water could've just ended up evaporating overnight or dealt with by Kinzo's anti-flood system, whatever it was. Maybe the drainage. Hence, there was no water to be found. Hence, they wouldn't have noticed anything.

Last edited at 17/10/24(Tue)16:17:05
>> No. 21002 edit
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None of the keys were delivered into the room using water.
>> No. 21003 edit
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None of the keys were in any of the rooms from the start.

Key C was planted by Genji as he was pretending to pick it up.
Key B was planted by the culprit.
While everyone was focused on Rudolf and Kyrie's bodies, Genji unlocked Room 3 with Key C and dropped Key A into it, then quickly locked it.

>> No. 21006 edit
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Sorry but, Each key was already in its found room when its door was opened.
>> No. 21009 edit
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The bodies of the first twilight, in addition to being covered with sheets, had been carried outside of the crime scene - before the doors were all sealed!
>> No. 21010 edit
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The bodies were not carried out after. The group left them where they were found.
>> No. 21012 edit
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The keys weren't delivered by water, but they were still delivered by pipes. Perhaps electrical conduits or air vents or the like. If you have to be mean, odds are we're close.

The culprit was in the bathroom when Kumasawa checked Natsuhi's room. As such, they don't count as being in 'the room' as the bathroom can be considered a separate room. They then hid in the closet when everyone was investigating the room. It only mentioned that they looked under the bed. Hence why the door was unlocked, to speed up the search.

The culprit is Kinzo, accomplice is Genji.

>> No. 21013 edit
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Alright it would start to hurt my conscious if I tried to mislead you guys anymore even playing as a witch. I'll relinquish to that pipe blue. There is a bit more to it of course but the first twilight was the only borderline unfair room.

As for the rest of that post, The bathroom and closet do not count as rooms separate from Natsuhi's room.
>> No. 21014 edit
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I was wondering... I noticed there are not many reds about the general rules of the gameboard. It is a little rude to ask, but I should check if the culprit is not one of the 17 canon Umineko characters.
>> No. 21015 edit
The body believed to be Natsuhi's was actually the culprit pretending to be dead. The real Natsuhi had been fiund during the first twilight but had been dressed as one of the other victims.

Alternatively, after Kumasawa left, Genji simply showed up, unlocked the door from the outside with his master key and left.

>> No. 21016 edit
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Of course the culprit was the witch Beatrice.

But yeah a person x is never a fun thing to have, assuming a human could be the culprit then the culprit has to be someone mentioned in the story.

The body in Natsuhi's room really was Natsuhi.

Also if you recall Genji didn't have his master key just like Kumasawa.
>> No. 21017 edit
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You have to answer properly the blue truths, Mr. Ozaki. I will be carefully examine your responses.

Kumasawa killed Natsuhi outside of her room. Genji placed her corpse inside of her room.
Genji unlocked the door to Natsuhi's room with a master key that wasn't his own.
Natsuhi's room door has an auto-lock mechanism.
Kanon or Shannon could have exited the boiler room if they broke through the door, nobody would have noticed if they closed the door after leaving.

And meanwhile I had another idea. The culprit is impersonating one of the victims of the first twilight. Without a face to prove the identities of the victims, the culprit just had to swap their clothes with the corpse.

Last edited at 17/10/25(Wed)00:38:44
>> No. 21018 edit
I don't actually remember when it was established genji didn't have his master key. I mean he could've just swiped one from the keychain found in the boiler room. Or the culprit swiped one, secretly gave it to Genji and Genji secretly gavr it back.
>> No. 21021 edit
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I don't have to deny blues that don't explain anything.
For example your first two only work if Genji had a key, but the master keys were all found in the boiler room.

There is no autolock on any door besides Kinzo's main study door.

The group would have noticed if the door was broken down.

None of the people found in the first twilight were pretending to be someone else.

Alright sure. Then how did Kyrie and or Rudolf escape?
>> No. 21022 edit
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...? What does this have to do with Kyrie or Rudolf?

When the bodies in the boiler room found, Genji found the servants' keys. It was during that time that Genji or the culprit could've swiped one that Genji could've used to lock Natsuhi's room door. Afterwards, there's no issue - he could've just gotten rid of it.

I'm not arguing for the Kyrie+Rudolf theory anymore after Genji has been confirmed the single accomplice and the first twilight's solved.

Last edited at 17/10/25(Wed)12:07:05
>> No. 21024 edit
Then it should be easy to actually deny it in red, right? Genji unlocked Natsuhi's room using a master key. There is no red about who kept the master keys and for how long. I don't need to specify anything else!
>> No. 21028 edit
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Right. I was just checking to see if you were still suspecting them, and wanted to hear your revised theory. We have been discussing the whodunit for a while now (Hence why I was denying things about the first twilight that made that theory possible).

Well yeah, I can't deny it. You guys took that whole part in a different way then I intended.
>> No. 21031 edit
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Yeah, I kinda got confused with the whole "Genji didn't have the master key" thing you brought up, so I just assumed the earlier explanation with Genji doing it had somehow been denied.

The only reasonable suspect has to be Kinzo at this point.

First Set: Trick with the pipes.
Second Set: Krauss killed way before, put in incinerator, scene between him and Genji is fantasy, Natsuhi was killed, Kumasawa's trouble with the door is explained with Genji locking/unlocking the door.
Third Set: Knocked on the door, created the locked rooms as explained earlier, left through the window.

I would've suggested Jessica, but her escaping the bathroom while Maria was in there to commit the third set would've made Maria an accomplice, so...

Last edited at 17/10/25(Wed)13:50:50
>> No. 21035 edit
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It's getting tricky to deny parts without being obvious now.

Kinzo never entered the study after the group first entered after the second twilight.
Kinzo was not in the room at that time.
Genji did not swipe one of the master keys.
Jessica never entered the study again until after they got the call in the parlor.

>> No. 21038 edit
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I mean

"Jessica never entered the study again" could very well be taken as "Jessica never entered the study again after murdering the shit out of everyone". Same with the key swiping - Genji might not have done it, but Jessica could've...

And trust me, suggesting anything is obvious is like a death sentence to me because the most obvious shit goes way over my head.
>> No. 21040 edit
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Well, like your typical gameboard there is only one master key per servant. A bit easy to notice a key missing out of five.

Jessica isn't the culprit.
>> No. 21042 edit
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One of the victims of the first twilight could've used Kinzo's body to make everyone believe they were dead. This doesn't break the "none of the victims of the first twilight were faking their death" because Kinzo was the victim of the first twilight, not the killer who used his body to present it as their own.
>> No. 21043 edit
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Kinzo was alive at the end of the game.
>> No. 21044 edit
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ah, fucknuggets

Kinzo entered with the group as they entered the study.
>> No. 21045 edit
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They would have noticed that.
Kinzo did not enter at the same time as the group
>> No. 21046 edit
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There's an extra person on the island.


Kinzo (the old dude) relinquished his name to someone else prior to the story and stopped being Kinzo - while someone else became Kinzo.
>> No. 21047 edit
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Well I did say in red it had to be someone named.

Nobody had at any time another name other than the one they are referred to as.
>> No. 21048 edit
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A woman named Beatrice IS stated in the story, y'know...
>> No. 21049 edit
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Human side admitted witch culprit.
>> No. 21050 edit
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I meant more Castiglioni.

I'm not sure which one of us is more desperate at this point but one thing's for sure

we both want this game to end
>> No. 21051 edit
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Can do.


Okay but really I'm burnt out. What am looking for is the name of the who, why you suspect them (ie something suggests they could be the culprit), and how they could have done the murders. Most of the murders are solved so that isn't as big as a deal. Anyone can pm me on discord their one shot theory, if someone gets it to a reasonable degree human side wins.
>> No. 21067 edit
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Alright so Deadon managed to solve enough of it for me to grant the human side a win.

I’ll explain the solution.


So the culprit was Eva, with Genji accomplice. During the night she solved the epitaph and he became her servant. As said in the story Kinzo was losing his mind, and would wander about for no reason. Although there were a few scenes showing sanity he basically was a poor old man deep into dementia.

Since this game was made with the intention of multiple rounds happening the whydunit was never properly hinted as it was going to be saved for the next game. Eva was suffering from an incurable disease and to put it simply killed the family she hated for the money to go to the kids and mainly her son. Eva lagging behind on the mountain path when they first arrived would have been one of the clues in later games.

Most of the closed rooms had been solved. The first twilight is fairly simple once you know the idea but is also the only one I kind of just gave away since it is somewhat unfair. This closed room isn’t really my style since it was more like how Umineko “hinted” things. You had the distraction of the sparks, the mention of pipes, and the existence of devices that could cut through metal. While everyone was looking away from the sparks Eva pulled the string with the key attached and set up beforehand through the pipe. So the sparks masked the sound of the key dropping into the room and also the action of Eva doing this in the first place.

You may notice a silly meta hint for this solution. Every other closed room features electricity and or water in some way, so logically the first twilight should also have something water related; the pipes.

After they left she gave a key to Genji to make it seem like someone else was on the island or faked their death. This was done with Natsuhi’s room and also the fact Natsuhi and Krauss were killed the night before with the rest of the first twilight. The incinerator was turned on while they were leaving thus leaving Krauss only partially cooked. The scene with Genji seeing them alive in the morning was a false perspective since he was an accomplice and nobody else saw them. Natsuhi’s door was never something to be solved, but rather indicate Genji had to have a master key and Eva likely would have noticed one of the only master keys missing, thus making her a likely suspect. This of course was more reliant on reds and mislead unintentionally.

The third twilight is cheeky. Eva wanted to get George out of the room with the cousins and was planning to plant the letter eventually. As it happens Kinzo came back and knocked on the door, which she used to her advantage. Normally it would be odd for Eva to let George leave while a murderer was about, but being the culprit makes more sense. Ultimately she knew George would want to leave as well if she framed the cousins and placed the letter there. Everyone’s eyes were fixed on the door as stated so this created an easy opening. Which is why I never argued this point.

Once they were gone Eva and Genji took everyone at gunpoint and set up the rooms. The execution was likely confusing unless you were already suspecting Eva. When the group came back in Eva was on the window ledge right outside of the window which was unlocked. The room was covered in blood and water to hide when she came back in and was drenched by the rain and had already stabbed herself to place the stake later. The movement in the back of the room caused the group to run over before checking the window and Eva came back in and went to the library right beside the bathroom. She then killed herself after locking the library door from the inside. Battler only declared the window locked after checking the bodies first.

Additionally George was the detective. He had the most screentime and was purposely placed next to Battler who had an unreliable perspective. Battler noticed butterflies before midnight suggesting this and this was the basis for the Rudolf and Kyrie theory.

For the record the Rudolf and Kyrie theory was actually intentional. It was the logical solution to the first closed room and I decided to make it work for the whole game. Of course once more veteran seacats started playing I decided to use it a bit more nefariously than intended. Same can be said for most of the game in regards to my red usage. Originally this was made for new players after all.

This was very unusual game for me. In any case while it did not turn out how I wanted someone did manage to solve it at the end so at least it wasn’t as bittersweet.

Thanks to everyone who played and or read.
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