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3806 No. 3806 edit
Ok here is the next twilights.

First Thread
151 posts omitted. Last 50 shown. Expand all images
>> No. 4056 edit
Yeah, it is what I was thinking, expect using the drain part. But since we are wrong, now we have to rethink our approach.

String and needle through the pocket, pull the line the key goes under the door and into Kanon's pocket. Keeping pulling and the string comes back.
>> No. 4057 edit
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Again, creative but
Kanon's key never left his possession.
I was going to say his pocket but then I would have to deny a theory about moving pockets~
>> No. 4058 edit
Creative? Nope, it is a really old trick.

After locking the door they crushed the keys and then dropped them down the pipe where the water comes from. So the keys poured out of the shower.
>> No. 4059 edit
File 130837229998.png - (64.25KB , 347x480 , ozaki_akuwaraia1.png )
The keys were not in such a state.
The keys are not in separate pieces or anything.
>> No. 4060 edit
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Alright, Ozaki, could you please repeat a few things for me in red?

'There are exactly five master keys.'
'Only the five master keys and Jessica's key can lock/unlock the door to Jessica's room.'
'There are no duplicates of Jessica's key.'
>> No. 4061 edit
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'There are exactly five master keys.'
'Only the five master keys and Jessica's key can lock/unlock the door to Jessica's room.'
'There are no duplicates of Jessica's key.'

Of course, If a key is 'unusable' then it cannot lock and or open any door.
Kumasawa's key is unusable.
Gohda's Key is unusable.
Genji's Key is unusable.
The key to Jessica's room is unusable.

>> No. 4062 edit
File 13082697241.png - (160.87KB , 434x480 , wdk_niramua1.png )

Now I'll go to the windows and see if they are locked or not. And after that I'll go to the door with the chain to see whether or not the chain is still set.
>> No. 4063 edit
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The windows are locked. The chain is still set.
>> No. 4064 edit
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Alright. Now that I know that the chain is still set and the two windows still locked, here's my analysis:

>From when Erika, Shannon and Battler entered the room to when you checked the closet no one has left Jessica's room.
>While you are investigating this room Battler, Erika and Shannon will follow you.
>Furthermore they have not stopped following you since you entered the room.

The combination of these reds states that, from the moment I entered the room up until I confirmed the chain was still set, no one left the room.

In other words, there are no blind spots for anyone to have left via the door after I entered.


-culprit killed and left before we discovered the crime
-culprit killed and hid, then left as we were searching denied
-culprit killed and is currently hiding in the room

It's easiest to eliminate the third option first by confirming no blind spots for the culprit to hide in.
Naturally, this is impossible because Battler, Erika, and Shannon will always follow me, so there will always be a blind spot open where the culprit can move from area to area.
But there's a way around this. There's just a closet, bathroom, and bedroom.

First, I searched the bathroom, and no one was hiding there.
Then, I searched the closet, and no one was hiding there.

...So, it's possible that the culprit hid in the closet while I searched the bathroom.
And then the culprit hid under the bed or behind a couch while I searched the closet.

Actually, scratch the couch. Because that's the next place I searched, and I only found a dead Kanon there.

Wait. It's possible Kanon is the culprit. First he hid in the closet, then crawled behind the couch and died.
...Actually, the red 'Kanon did not lock the door' essentially denies this theory.
There's also the red 'the culprit is still alive', so that wouldn't work either.

...Wait...'the' culprit?
There's only one? But wasn't an accomplice needed for the first twilight...?

...And both Jessica and Genji are missing...?

>Jessica is alive.
>Jessica did not fake her death and she didn't lock the door.

Jessica is the culprit, and Genji is the accomplice.
Of course, Jessica didn't fake her death. That was Genji's doing.
Since he was the accomplice used in the first twilight -- the location of Rosa's decapitated head which was used to fake Jessica's death.

> The door can only be locked with a key.
>The door was locked with a key while the person who locked it had the key in hand and was standing in the hallway.

Well, that’s straightforward enough. And we know Jessica didn’t lock the door, so that has to be Genji’s doing. Which means he’s not hiding in the room.

But which key did he use?

>If a key is 'unusable' then it cannot lock and or open any door.

> Genji made Gohda's key unusable once Gohda was found dead.
> Kumasawa's key never left her pocket. Kumasawa's pocket never left the parlor. Kumasawa’s key is unusable.
> Shannon's master key was not used to lock the door.
> Genji never used Kanon's key. Kanon's key never left his [Kanon’s] possession.
> Genji's key is inside the room. Genji's key is broken and unusable.
> Jessica's key is inside the room. Jessica's key is broken and unusable.

…What if, right now, the key is unusable, but at the time of the crime it wasn’t? That doesn’t work.
Because all of the keys outside the room were unusable right after the discovery of their owner’s corpse, and all other keys are inside the room, which defeats the purpose of locking the room from the outside.

…This rules out all six possible keys. But we know a key was used to lock the door.

> There are exactly five master keys.
>Only the five master keys and Jessica's key can lock/unlock the door to Jessica's room.
>There are no duplicates of Jessica's key.

There aren’t any other keys to choose from.

This can only mean one thing…

>> No. 4065 edit
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If you are calling a logic error on me I believe we will need a delegate of sorts. Someone who is not solving this mystery and can confirm or deny that this is a logic error after i give them the answer.
>> No. 4066 edit
Umm.. Kinjo, I believe you have a little flaw in your logic.

As you said the keys are broken now, but they could have been broken after locking the door. (Like you said)

Why would the culprit do that? There are two reasons I can think of.

1.The keys possibly could have broken after they landed in the tub. Meaning that the culprit did not expect the keys to be broken.

2.The fact that they are broken changes nothing, it still looks the same as when we find the keys in victims pockets or in letters. It makes it look like a witch was the culprit.

Also Genji's key had to be found otherwise everyone would start to suspect him. Also breaking the keys could make someone believe that this is a sign those people are dead.

I don't believe we have a logic error, but I could be wrong.
>> No. 4068 edit
currently Genji is evaluating the outcome of Kinjo's accusation.
>> No. 4069 edit
I see, well I don't see a logic error. In fact I can think up more blue theories that go through the reds.
>> No. 4070 edit
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1. Even if they landed inside the tub, they are still inside the room. So how did a key lock a door from the outside and suddenly get inside a room?

2.It's not whether or not it looks like a witch did it, since this supposed error is created strictly from red text. Humans in the gameboard wouldn't consider this a mystery. That's why it's a logic error.
>> No. 4071 edit
Really, Kinjo? There are many ways for the key to enter the room.
>> No. 4072 edit
Let's just wait for Genji's response, then.
>> No. 4073 edit
Haha, it seems Genji always has to play this role.
>> No. 4074 edit
it must mean Genji seems the most trustworthy, or maybe responsible.
>> No. 4075 edit
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As both parties in this dispute have agreed, i'll now exercise my authority as delegate and provide a verdict in regards to the accusations concerning the possibility of one "logic error".

The primary issue of debate here, as I see it, relates to the precise nature of a definition provided by the gamemaster, namely, the red that states certain keys are to be considered "unusable".

As the plaintiff's argument is structured, this red, by way of definition, invariably predcludes the ability of said keys to perform their intended function, defined in these circumstances, as either locking or unlocking a room door, or other opening of similar constitution which could potentially serve as an entrance or exist. In this sense, the plaintiff's argument is one of absolutes- As the plaintiff asserts, a damaged or "unusable" key, by definition, is inherently unable to fulfill its intended purpose. This is clearly corroborated by the defendant himself:

Ref - (If a key is 'unusable' then it cannot lock and or open any door.)

However, an important factor to consider in this case, is that the defendant is simultaneously making an implicit assumption that this definition is applicable both forwards and backwards in time. In other words, according to the plaintiff, a status, such as that of usability, once conferred, may never be rescinded; that it bestows upon the object an irrefutably quality of existence.

This claim makes the dispute at hand largely one of interpretation. Does a key being "unusable" mean that it was never able to lock/unlock? This claim undoubtedly has a certain grounding to it. After all, is not an inedible substance impossible to consume without the onset of detrimental side-effects? In the opinion of this delegate, the answer to that question is 'no'.

My reasoning and justification for this is as follows:

The definition put forth by the defendant is purposefully crafted in the present tense; it does not explicitly make the claim that the "unusable" keys in question were never capable of performing their duties, only that the status ascribed to them bestows upon them the condition
of non-use. As statuses, also by definition, may be defined as transient states of being, their application in this context would seem to indicate that the GM's red intends to say that once a key is made "unusable", it is thereafter no longer capable of locking any door; the key's usability before this, however, remains in question.

Further corroborating this interpretation is the nature of the red truth itself. Specifically, red truth is defined as text that simply tells the truth. By this definition, the red presented by the defendant is quite valid, as an unusable key is by its very nature unusable. It is tautologically true. Whether or not the very same key could possess any functionality before it became unusable is strictly irrelevant, as this is outside of the referenced red truth's domain. In response to the plaintiff's accusations, it is important that we be cognizant of the fact that the defendant is not implying in any way that all keys are "unusable" at all times.

Ref( If a key is 'unusable' then it cannot lock and or open any door.)

Furthermore, a key, also by definition, must either lock or unlock to be considered what it is. Simply stated, a key is something that locks, and for a key to be unable to do so would rob it of its title. In this sense, The plaintiff's claims are refuted by means of reductio ad absurdum- if a key can never be said to have been functional, it was never really a key in the first place.

If the plaintiff would remain, after reviewing these facts, inclined to question the validity of the transient state interpretation as it has been described, I would implore his to reference a somewhat ironic red he so conveniently issued

Ref("nanjo is not the culprit!")

In conclusion:

This solution is fair!

Ozaki is hereby found innocent of malpractice!

This is not a logic error!

Also, Kinjo is incompetent! Kyahahahaha

My verdict is both final and binding. Case dismissed.
>> No. 4076 edit
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>> No. 4077 edit
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>> No. 4078 edit
I lol'd. That was a fun read. And a very expected answer.

Alright time to continue then.

A hole was made in the floor/wall/ceiling and the keys were lowered into the room using it.
>> No. 4079 edit
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Anyway! Based on the fact that this isn't a logic error, I'll spit out a theory I'd been holding back!

Since it's not a logic error, that just means the culprit is still inside the room...!

Jessica is the culprit, and Genji is the accomplice! Genji entered the room, locked the door, set the chain, and hid in the closet. When Kanon and Jessica came by, Kanon had to cut the chain and use his key to unlock the door. Genji sneaked by the two and locked the door from behind. He then put Rosa's head, his key, and Jessica's key in the bathtub and jumped out the window! Jessica killed Kanon, locked the window, and hid in the closet until we searched the bathroom, then she hid under the bed! So Jessica, the culprit, is still hiding in the room!
>> No. 4080 edit
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Also, I sort of might be incompetent too, there were far too many errors in that post.
>> No. 4081 edit
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The keys were not lowered into the room via hole made by the culprit in the floor, wall or ceiling.

Jessica was not inside her room when you entered. The windows in Jessica's room were never opened or closed.

>> No. 4082 edit
rosa, reread that last blue you made. you might find something.
>> No. 4083 edit
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Mother of god ...
>> No. 4084 edit
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Silly Ozaki!

The keys weren't lowered into the room! But there's still a hole in the floor or wall which they passed through!
>> No. 4085 edit
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Oh? Well then do pray tell, where is this hole oh which you speak of?
After all,
You have already found everything you need to solve this mystery.
>> No. 4086 edit
just to clarify this referring to the room and the objects in it. Just in case that wasn't obvious.
>> No. 4087 edit
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You know, after draining the bathtub, you'd think the keys would have gone down the drain too.

But they didn't go down the drain, instead they went up it!
>> No. 4088 edit
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So you're saying that the keys entered the tub once the water was drained? Well that's interesting.
SinceThe keys were inside the tub when you first entered the room.

However I'm not going to be as cruel today. You are correct, The keys entered through the drain.
>> No. 4089 edit
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Something that floats was tied to the keys (perhaps the hair?). The keys were carried through the drain system into the room post-mortem and post-locking the door from the outside.
>> No. 4090 edit
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That's a rather surprising answer.
However there is something wrong with that theory. First off someone's hair would not be able to keep a metal key afloat let alone have it go up through the drain. At least the amount of hair that was in the tub wouldn't be able to. And secondly if something was used to make the keys float up the drain then how did it vanish without a trace? You are pretty damn close, but in any case the keys did not float up through the drain.
>> No. 4091 edit
They were pulled up through the drain.

Also where does the tubs drain pipe go out.
>> No. 4092 edit
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Sorry for the delay, internet problems etc.

Anyway that is correct. I won't ask you for a full theory since it should be obvious.

After setting up Rosa's corpse to look like Jessica, Genji took the rope and tied one end to a weight. He then fed that end of the rope though one of the handles on the bathtub and then down the drain which had been cut so the weight was now hanging in the boiler room. He then took the other end of the rope and took it with him into the hallway where he then locked the door with his key. After locking the door he made the keys unusable. The unusable keys were then tied to the end of the rope in the boiler room. A cut was also made in that end of the rope. Once this was done Genji pulled the rope which then caused the keys to come up into the bathroom via the drain. Once it hit the handle the rope ripped leaving only the five inch piece.

This is the answer.

I'll post the next twilight on Friday. Or at least try, my internet still isn't fixed.
>> No. 4095 edit
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Here are the last twilights. Don't worry though, there is still 1-2 more mysteries to solve after this.


After taking Kanon’s key Erika, Shannon and Battler exited Jessica’s room. Shannon continued crying about Kanon and something about a butterfly broach. Immediately afterwards they heard a scream from whom they could only assume to be Maria. They rushed to where they heard the noise. After a few seconds the group reached a hallway with many doors. On one of them was a strange symbol painted in some red substance (Guest room A). Erika checked the door. She couldn’t open it so Shannon tried her key. The door started to swing open before stopping. The chain was set. Nothing could be seen from the hallway. They tried to knock the door down but the three of them was not enough so they left the mansion and went around back to enter through a window.

Once inside Erika taped over the part of window she broke. After that the three of them started to look around. Battler checked the windows, they were locked. Shannon checked the closet, nothing. Erika, a little more observant then the others caught a glimpse of something from behind the couch. It was another envelope. She opened it and a key fell out, it was labeled ‘Guest Room B’. At that moment everyone else in the room heard Shannon gasp.

It happened in a seconds, Battler and Erika looked up and saw Shannon’s neck, cut in half. She fell a split second after that and a golden butterfly broach jumped along the ground and rested at Batter’s feet. Battler and Erika had no time to react because they then heard the chain on the door jingle. Reeling their heads around they saw and heard the door slam shut.

Erika and Battler rushed out the door and unlocked the chain to enter the hallway. Another scream pierced their ears. Not even one room down was another door with the red paint like substance. It was labeled ‘Guest Room B’. Erika unlocked it with the key and entered the room. Battler made it inside before Erika and then stepped on a bunch of thumbtacks. Regretting his hurried entrance he sat down and took out the thumbtack which had gone through a rubber band, the soil of his shoe, his sock and finally his foot to taste blood. Inside the room was a mess. Dolls, toy trains, a rocking horse, an empty suitcase, a flickering tv and in the middle of it all was Maria. Dead. On top of her corpse was a key labeled 'Guest Room A'

On the wall written in blood was the message “I have revived, you shall be next.”

There are no duplicates of either one of the guest room keys.
>> No. 4096 edit
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omg I would like to have time to read and etc
>> No. 4097 edit
Easy; a guillotine like trap cut shannon's neck up. And Maria screamed when she stepped on the tumbtacks, which also killed her.

The wind from the force of the guillotine opened the door and closed it. Maria had the guestroom B key when she died, mystery solved.

>> No. 4098 edit
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Pffft, that's a silly answer and you know it.
Although I did forget to add this:
'Maria was found with a knife in her head'

Maria was not killed by the thumbtacks, the culprit took the knife and plunged it into her head.
A Guillotine like trap was not used to kill Shannon.

If that was the cause then her head should have been cut as well, and I doubt Battler and Erika wouldn't see it.
Maria did not have any key on her when she died.
Wind did not move the door to make it move, it was moved by human hands.

>> No. 4099 edit
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This one looks complicated.

So, to start off. Sure, there aren't any duplicates of the keys. But those keys aren't the only ones that can unlock the door, such as a master key.
>> No. 4100 edit
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Yes, a master key could be used to unlock/lock said doors. Although if you were to remember that 3 of the 5 masters keys are unusable and that the other 2 are with Erika's group. Ergo,
The only time a master key was used on either one of these doors was when Shannon unlocked Guest Room A's door.
>> No. 4101 edit
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That's helpful.

Now that I think about it, it's not really that complicated after all. For the closed room trick, the culprit would just need to do the following: unlock the doors to both Room A and Room B, place the key to Room A inside Room B, then go to Room A, set the chain and lock the door, place the key to Room B inside, and hide inside somewhere that wasn't checked, such as the bathroom or under the bed. Room B wasn't actually locked when Erika inserted the key into the lock to unlock it.
>> No. 4102 edit
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Hmm, well for now you can treat most of that blue as the truth. However you are missing something.
Room B was locked when Erika inserted the key into the lock in order to unlock the door.
>> No. 4103 edit
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Right, I suspected that part might not have been correct. This is the only thing I can think of, then: the rubber band was tied around the lock of Room B. The tack was stuck on it in such a way that when the door was shut from the outside the rubber band would snap and lock the door from the inside.
>> No. 4104 edit
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Guest room B was not locked in a such a way. It was locked with Guest room B's key.
>> No. 4105 edit
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Derp. Let's try this again, using my head this time.

For the closed room trick, the culprit would just need to do the following: unlock the doors to both Room A and Room B, place the key to Room A inside Room B, exit Room B and lock it with the key to Room B. Then go to Room A, set the chain and lock the door, place the key to Room B inside, and hide inside somewhere that wasn't checked, such as the bathroom or under the bed.
>> No. 4106 edit
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Correct. You solved this twilight
Although there is one small last part,
When Room B was locked Maria was dead.
Can you explain how Erika and Battler heard the scream of a dead girl?
>> No. 4107 edit
File 131794550038.png - (161.24KB , 434x480 , wdk_waraia1.png )
Ah, cool. That's the fastest I've ever solved any mystery on /seacats/.

It's simple, the scream they heard was a recording. I had actually reasoned that out at the beginning, which led me to the rest of my theory.
>> No. 4108 edit
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Yes that's exactly it. It was the Tv in room B. Good work Kinjo.

I'll start to type up the next part right now and I'll make a new thread when It's done.
Third Thread: http://www.seacats.net/gameboard/res/4110.html
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