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754 No. 754 edit
This thread will be for OOC Chatter and Discussion.

Character Sheets:
George (Myn Nthelsyr) http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=215664
Hideiling (Michael Silversteel) http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=217177
Bernkastel ("Bernkastel") http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=215658
Astaroth (Torinn Tormine) http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=217138
Liliane (Sariel) http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=217112
anon-kun (Sureiya) http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=224099

The Books: http://www.mediafire.com/?7g2v42d2xdy7f
Expand all images
>> No. 759 edit
Hmm, I can't really do much with perception or dungeoneering myself here, nor arcana, so up to those with the appropriate skill I guess.
>> No. 760 edit
I'm gonna try a perception check, let's see what happens.
>> No. 761 edit
>>760
You could also make a dungeoneering check.
>> No. 763 edit
Well, why not. We are not on initiative yet.
>> No. 765 edit
Should we ask to Sariel to investigate the area as well? George's apparently not around.
>> No. 766 edit
>>765
Probably.
>> No. 769 edit
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769
By the way, this is what I have for everyone's HP after spending surges. Tell me if it's off anywhere.

Players
Myn Nthelsyr (George): 38/38 HP Darkspiral Aura 6
Michael Silversteel (Hideyoshi): 35/35 HP
"Bernkastel" (Bernkastel): 36/38 HP
Torinn Tormine (Astaroth): 42/44 HP, Light
Sariel (Liliane): 29/30 HP
Sureiya (Anonkun): 40/40 HP
Spirit Companion (Bernkastel):
Elemental Spirit (Bernkastel): Grants adjacent allies +1 to all defenses
Roth (Sariel): (Passive Mode)
>> No. 771 edit
>>769
That looks about right.
>> No. 774 edit
>>771
You mean, THE HEART
>> No. 775 edit
>>774
...No, I mean the fifth elephant that holds the world up.
>> No. 777 edit
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777
>>775
Is that a book? Well i thought they were only four elephants, ne.
>> No. 778 edit
>>777
Correct. Legend had it that the fifth one fell off... Somewhere and became buried in the Disc's crust. That's why the dwarves have fat mines.
>> No. 779 edit
;_; poor elephant
>> No. 793 edit
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793
I haven't listed any options for skills, but you could search the new area with Perception or try to see what's down the tunnel or whatever.

Alternately, you could use a dungeoneering check to try and determine what's going on with the dwarf face there.
>> No. 819 edit
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819
Torinn, when you feel the gem for a few moments, you can clearly sense that this is what it does:

Fiery Guardian Summoning Stone Level 5
This small, red gem contains the spirit of a fiery guardian knight, clad in burning armor and armed with a flaming lash, who will be released upon cracking the gem open.
Gem 50gp
Power (Consumable * Fire, Summoning): Standard action. You summon a Medium fiery guardian in an an unoccupied square within 5 squares. It has speed 5 and resist 5 fire. You can give the guardian the following special command. On the turn you summon the guardian, you give that command as part of using this power.
------Standard Action: Close blast 3; targets each creature in blast; Primary ability modifier + 3 vs. Reflex, 1d8 fire damage and ongoing 5 fire damage (save ends).
Instinctive Action: If you haven't given the guardian any commands by the end of your turn, it makes its attack against at least one enemy, targeting as many enemies as possible. If it can't do that, it moves its speed to a square adjacent to an enemy.
Special: Using this gem counts as the use of a magical item daily power.
>> No. 829 edit
I'm okay with us moving ahead, if you're waiting on my input or something
>> No. 831 edit
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831
If it's athletics, Sureiya is about the only one who can pass it, and he has a climber's kit as well. Michael and I might be able to aid him effectively if we stow our shields and weapons, and we could use a length of rope to help guide everybody.


...Come to think of it, couldn't we use one of those pitons included in the climber's kit to secure a rope somewhere and just slide down the length of said rope? Or is it far too long a passage for that to be a viable solution?
>> No. 832 edit
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832
>>831
You could certainly get a bonus for using the tools contained in a climber's kit intelligently.
>> No. 833 edit
>>831
For the record, my atheltics is only 2 points worse than his.
>> No. 834 edit
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834
>>832
...Fair enough.

Why's the ground slick, though? Is it wet?
>> No. 836 edit
>>834
Probably the moisture in the cave combined with the fungus mentioned earlier, maybe.
>> No. 837 edit
What should we do now?
>> No. 838 edit
>>837
well Rin mentioned in her spoiler text a "lead climber" or using an item to help. All I can think of is using the rope to grab onto something sturdy to help us maybe keep balance on our way down, or a climbers kit or something.
>> No. 839 edit
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839
>>838
What I mean is, the "lead climber" is the one who mechanically makes the check. In character, he's the one who is "leading" the group in their climb.

Everyone else is doing their best to remain steady. They can either:
(A) Aid another using Atheltics or Acrobatics.
(B) Use items they have on them to help.
Depending on how well everyone describes their actions, I may give bonuses to the lead climber.
>> No. 840 edit
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840
>>839
>Depending on how well everyone describes their actions, I may give bonuses to the lead climber.
>> No. 841 edit
>>839
oh, I see. That's much more helpful. Sureiya and I being one of the people leading the climb I assume, I wouldn't know much about the item part and describing how to do so well enough, though.
>> No. 842 edit
>>841
Don't forget to put away your shield, though. That thing puts a -2 penalty on such checks.
>> No. 843 edit
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843
Actually, could I request a better description of where we currently are? I'm having a difficult time visualizing the corridor and how it slants.
>> No. 844 edit
>>842
Ah, yeah. That should put me on par with his.
>> No. 845 edit
>>844
...But it does cost a Standard to equip or remove a shield if I end up getting in combat...
>> No. 846 edit
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846
>try dungeoneering check
>roll a 3
>why didn't I take 10
Anyways, let's hope Shion gives us some information about the problem. I didn't understood from reading it...
>> No. 847 edit
>>845
Then put it back on after we finish the climb. I'm not asking you to leave it off.
>> No. 849 edit
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849
>>846
You're in a narrow tunnel, trying to climb down. The ground is suddenly not very stable nor sturdy (it is slippery, with water or some other liquid that doesn't give off any particular color or smell), so you think it would be best to proceed with caution. Since there's very little to grab onto should you slip and start to fall, you'd be best off using some sort of climbing aids.
>> No. 850 edit
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850
>>849
Down? Like straight down?
>> No. 851 edit
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851
>>850
Not straight down, it's just inclined.
>> No. 852 edit
>>851
Is it steep enough that you risk slipping even by standing still?
>> No. 853 edit
Hmm, Could always have one person leading and the other at the back or staying back to make sure the rope or whatever is being used is held in place. (I'll probably put away my shield to help with the check) Up to you guys whether to have Sureiya lead on and me stay back and hold the rope or something.
>> No. 854 edit
>>853
We don't need to have somebody hold the rope. That's what the pitons are for.
>> No. 855 edit
>>852
Inclination + Slippery floor, probably.
>> No. 856 edit
>>855
But how steep is it?
>> No. 857 edit
>>854
Yeah but you could think of it as maybe helping those towards the back or something with my Athleticism
>> No. 858 edit
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858
If we were to construct something like this would be awesome.
Explanation:
Find a really big stone or near wall, reforce one side of the rope. Either Hideling or me get to the other side and reforce the other side on a wall, object or even the floor, making sure the rope is tense. We use tense rope to help the others get down.
>> No. 859 edit
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859
>>853
Tying yourselves together or having someone strong hold a rope for the others to hold onto seems like the best ideas.

>>856
What, you want me to give you an angle? It's nothing so complicated, it's just a steep, slightly slippery incline. Completely normal in a cave.

>>858
None of your ropes are long enough to reach all the way to the top.
>> No. 860 edit
>>859
Hmm, are you upset or something?
What about using two or three ropes?
>> No. 861 edit
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861
>>858
Actually, I have an even better idea: build a zipline.
>> No. 862 edit
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862
>>859
...Sorry. I can figure something out without that information.
>> No. 863 edit
>>860
The problem with using several ropes is that if one of them manages to become untied, the person climbing down will plummet.
>> No. 864 edit
>>858
That's sort of what I was thinking of!
>>859
Ah, a setback then.. Maybe have each of us tied together with the best Athletics at each end.
>> No. 865 edit
>>864
Why "each end", though? Wouldn't the ones with the best athletics check be at the front holding the rope?
>> No. 866 edit
>>865
So that the ones at the middle/back don't end up sliding down into only two said people with Athletics?
>> No. 867 edit
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867
Technically, I think the person LEADING the climb would be the one highest up, holding the rope for the rest of the climbers as they slowly, carefully go down, using the rope to keep themselves steady. The one with the best Athletics and strength is bracing the rest of the group.
>> No. 868 edit
>>867
This is what I meant.
>> No. 869 edit
>>867
That sounds a lot better.
>> No. 870 edit
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870
>>868
>>869
Just keep in mind that the leader is ALSO moving down. They might want to tie the rope around themselves to help keep everyone else steady. This is because, as I have said, the tunnel is too long for a rope to extend all the way down.
>> No. 871 edit
>>870
Astaroth was going to post the plan I think. And it was more that we were confused on how the whole thing was going to work until you told us in knox's stream.
>> No. 872 edit
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872
>>871
It's no big deal, these things happen.
>> No. 873 edit
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873
Just so there's no miscommunication, here's what the plan looks like. Sureiya's the one holding everybody up, we're the ones making checks to see if we make his job easier or harder. We each roll starting from the person at the bottom (Michael) all the way up to the person at the top (Sureiya), reacting to how well the last person's roll went (or not).

At least that's how I picture it. Questions?
>> No. 874 edit
>>873
Sure, I'm fine with it. I should auto pass anyway with my shield put away. (9 Athletics and even a 1 is passing with aid another.)
>> No. 877 edit
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877
Sorry for the monster post, guys. I think I took the mention of describing our actions for extra points a little too far~
>> No. 881 edit
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881
Is there something in particular you're waiting for?
>> No. 882 edit
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882
>>881
Waiting for everybody to give their in-character agreement/disagreement with the plan.

...And maybe an evaluation of my scene.
>> No. 883 edit
Evidently today is the designated GM/DM day. (March 4th)
>> No. 884 edit
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884
>>882
It looks fine to me. I'm just ready to see it all in action.
>> No. 885 edit
>>884
Just waiting for everybody's consent before putting everything in motion.
>> No. 887 edit
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887
Happy Dungeon Master day, Shion.
>> No. 903 edit
Just to humor George and Bern, Shion.. Tell them how bad of an idea burning the Shrooms probably is, if at all possible. And shooting them, or any variation of that. Because from a logical standpoint, that seems like the worst sort of idea. The fumes from the mushrooms, and it's spores, combined with the smoke and fire, and the mossy floor. Smoke/fume mixture rises towards us/the path we came, etc.
>> No. 905 edit
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905
A thought occurs to me.

Anyone remember how in NausicaƤ and the Valley of the Wind (or Kaze no Tani no NausicaƤ if that matters to you) that burning the toxic jungle was bad and that the heroine managed to save the forest by removing what was corrupting it in the first place?

Of course, in the end the plants weren't toxic, so the metaphor kinda falls apart there~

Anyway, the point is that the mushrooms haven't done anything bad to us yet, so let's just leave them be and let them live out their mushroomy lives. They might even revert back to normal if we fix the problem.

There could even be some kind of adorable mutant animals that depend on the mushrooms somehow. And it's faster and less hassle to go through by being cautious and leaving it alone than worrying about a fire or trying to save all the animals (if that's what you decide to do, anyway).

If you still want to go through with it, though, you should ask the relevant characters if they're willing to go through with it.
>> No. 907 edit
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907
>>905
Oh, and Goblin-caps are a type of tree in Dwarf Fortress that grow in moist areas, lending a little more to the jungle-y thing.
>> No. 913 edit
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913
For the record, I'm having quite a bit of fun with this opportunity to write out longer, more detailed responses.
>> No. 914 edit
Nice, we have +4 already, that's +14.
>> No. 915 edit
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915
>>907
No, actually, I specifically looked to Dwarf Fortress when trying to think up a name for these mushrooms. I knew they had a bunch of different kinds of underground mushrooms.

>>903
Shooting the mushrooms is a very bad idea. Even if it didn't directly harm you, it could leave lingering clouds of the poison, which would be even harder to navigate than the mushrooms.

To answer questions raised in the thread,
Hide: I'm not against it, but it's not breathing in the secretions that anon-kun is really scared of, rather, it's contact with your skin and armor.
Bern: You don't see any footprints, or any indication that another creature has passed through recently.
>> No. 916 edit
>>915
I see, good to know. Thanks Rin. The mental imagery I thought of when you described the Mushrooms are those in EPL or in the plague wing of Naxxramas.
>> No. 917 edit
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917
>>915
>no footprints
...Is there a clearing with the moss bundled around the edges? Or some stems that got knocked over?
>> No. 918 edit
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918
>>917
Nothing so obvious. I would've mentioned such a thing.
>> No. 919 edit
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919
>>918
So it's either not a dragon, the dragon has excellent flight control to head down that corridor like that without hitting the ceiling, they took off from somewhere nearby where there was no moss to scatter... Or spidragons.

Or we picked the "wrong" path.

Or the people crossing are just so darn good they don't leave impressions in the spongy moss when they walk across. Please tell me if I got the "spongy moss" thing wrong in my post.
>> No. 922 edit
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922
...Did I do good?
>> No. 927 edit
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927
>>922
Very, very complicated. It's not overpowered or anything, but I'd try to find a way to make it simpler myself.
>> No. 928 edit
>>927
I tried, but if it made an attack roll directly against him, then I'd have to add a bunch of clauses about specific stuff that would not trigger on a hit.
>> No. 935 edit
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935
Let's try this again, all nice and sorted out.
>> No. 937 edit
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937
>>935
Third time's the charm.
>> No. 940 edit
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940
>>937
It's good. Quite good. Still, most utilities from paragon paths aren't quite that good, I don't think. ...It's very creative, but I'm afraid if you take the baseline Cavalier paragon path, you'll have to take the current utility~
>> No. 943 edit
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943
>>940
Fair enough.
>> No. 946 edit
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946
Now that you're all rested up, are you ready to proceed down the web-filled tunnel?

Mechanics-wise, web-filled squares are difficult terrain. RP-wise, you can slash through the heaviest clumps to enter the tunnel just like the moss, but you don't actually need to roll attacks since there's no chance of dangerous mushroom dislodging for slashing through them.
>> No. 947 edit
There's any knowlogement check we can do to get information of the spiderweb? Ideally the best would be to cut it, but it could be a trap, ne.
>> No. 948 edit
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948
>>947
Nature, or dungeoneering would be appropriate.
>> No. 949 edit
>>947
Or burn it, but that may backfire, like making passage even harder to go through depending on how long it takes for the blaze to extinguish.
>> No. 951 edit
My guess is than if we destroy it some big horrible spider could react. But if we don't we could start an encounter with difficult terrain.
By the way, I'm not sure if 19 is the best dc check that spiderweb have, so feel free to roll again.
>> No. 953 edit
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953
Giant Cave Spider imminent
>> No. 954 edit
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954
>>951
>>953
If we fail enough skill checks, maybe. I'm pretty sure combat wasn't listed as something that happened if you didn't botch a skill challenge.
>> No. 956 edit
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956
>>954
>> No. 957 edit
>>956
>it's in the rules.png
>> No. 958 edit
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958
>>956
...Well, if it's not on the level of the last few encounters...
>> No. 959 edit
Incidentally, if we're going to use a torch, we need... A torch, for one. Do we have any torches?
>> No. 960 edit
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960
>>958
That depends on you. You can make it easier if you're a bit less stingy to use your limited resources as you were on the last few encounters.
>> No. 961 edit
>>960
...Right.
>> No. 963 edit
Wait, I'm sort of confused, are burning the webs a bad idea?
>> No. 964 edit
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964
>>961
Well, I'm not trying to scold you or anything, but when I played 4th edition, about half the time I would use a daily power in the first encounter of the day--even at 1st level.

Why? Because other people were way too hesitant to use them. My opinion was that if I can make the monster dead faster, that's less healing surges spent, an easier time for the defenders and controllers to do their thing, and generally the encounter becomes "easier" sooner rather than later. It's an aggressive, proactive approach, and I prefer it over a reactive approach that tries to carefully judge when the best time to use the daily/action point is. It could be a matter of taste, I suppose, but I think my way results in less rests for the party.
>> No. 965 edit
>>959
Ever burning torch? But I'm not sure if it can actually make things burn.
>> No. 966 edit
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966
>>963
Burning the webs is not a bad idea, it's just not particularly more efficient than slashing through them.

Well, unless there are spiders hiding IN the webs you set alight, but they're likely to attack you when you try to burn them if that was the case.
>> No. 967 edit
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967
>>964
Come to think of it, a guide I read said something similar about not keeping them in reserve until the "perfect opportunity" to use them arises, as that opportunity may never come up. And I haven't seen many chances to use Majestic Halo's mass marking power yet, at least not in any situations that Divine Challenge wouldn't cover already.
>> No. 968 edit
>>965
Don't think that would work. How ironic.
>> No. 969 edit
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969
>>967
Right, I consider it a minor failure when I take an extended rest and I haven't spent my daily powers/action points. That means I could have made an encounter easier, but I chose not to. Now, some dailies like Lead the Attack or Spirit of Grief's Shadow lend themselves to a very specific situation and are not so useful against random mooks, so I can understand saving those. But general damage-dailies are much easier to use.
>> No. 974 edit
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974
Before we proceed, there are a few things I need to get in order. This is what I have right now:

Players
Myn Nthelsyr (George): 38/38 HP, Darkspiral Aura 6, Sunrod
Michael Silversteel (Hideyoshi): 35/35 HP
"Bernkastel" (Bernkastel): 36/38 HP
Torinn Tormine (Astaroth): 42/44 HP, Light
Sariel (Liliane): 29/30 HP
Sureiya (Anonkun): 40/40 HP, Sunrod
Spirit Companion (Bernkastel):
Elemental Spirit (Bernkastel): Grants adjacent allies +1 to all defenses
Roth (Sariel): (Passive Mode)

It'd be nice if everyone knows (and I know) what you have in their hands, who's holding the light sources, and your HP totals. I remember Bernkastel, Myn, and Sureiya all had active sunrods, but I'm only really completely sure that Myn is holding his.
>> No. 975 edit
>>974
Well I did just take out my sword and shield again, so that changed.
>> No. 976 edit
I will keep having one in my left hand.
>> No. 977 edit
>>974
I still have my sword+Shield in my hands from the Mushroom part, so nothing changed for me, really.
>> No. 980 edit
>Super Metroid Boss Inc theme
>initiative has started
>FFFFF
>> No. 1004 edit
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1004
I'm surprised I found a fitting picture so easily.
>> No. 1018 edit
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1018
Shouldn't Sureiya have gotten off an OA after the big spider moved away like that? Prone or not he was still able to make them that turn.
>> No. 1020 edit
Blasted spiders and poison and fire!
>> No. 1021 edit
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1021
>>1018
It used a power called "web glide," which allows it to avoid opportunity attacks as long as it's moving through web-filled squares.
>> No. 1022 edit
>>1021
That.. Actually sounds kind of neat.
>> No. 1023 edit
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1023
By the way, anon-kun's move is illegal. He's slowed, and I double-checked the rules compendium to be sure, and it says "you cannot benefit from bonuses to speed when slowed," so his half-orc +2 to speed when charging doesn't apply either.

What I think I'll do instead is treat his roll as throwing his farbond spellblade, which is -1 to hit, but still hits and kills the swarm (which is what I think he wanted).
>> No. 1024 edit
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1024
>>1023
Yes, I'm sorry.
>> No. 1025 edit
>>1023
I can't believe I missed that on top of everything else.
>> No. 1027 edit
Would the improvised weapon thing for the torch be the same as improvised weapons listed in the equipment section of the PHB? Or a specific one?
>> No. 1028 edit
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1028
>>1022
I took the doomspinner spider from the MV and lowered it to level 6, then upgraded it to elite. That involved giving it a few extra powers.
>> No. 1029 edit
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1029
>>1024
Don't worry about it, it's okay.

>>1025
I honestly was not even thinking that. I thought of the name based on the "earth glide" ability from earth elementals, which lets them pass through solid rock as if phasing.

>>1027
Yes, but it would also set the webs on fire near where you use/throw it. If you hit a target with it, that target would also take ongoing 5 fire damage (save ends).
>> No. 1030 edit
>>1027
I wouldn't suggest moving closer to the Doomweaver on this turn. I'm hoping that through proper positioning of the spirit and the flaming sphere (C-12 and E-11, respectively) that we can severely limit its movements, but if somebody gets drawn in by its ability to pull enemies toward itself, then it's all for nothing and you might even take damage from the orb.

This is just my suggestion, though, and since I haven't really been on top of things lately, you may want to take it with a grain of salt.
>> No. 1031 edit
>>1030
It was more to see how useful the improvised weapon would be than anything. I really want to set up a nova round against the big one when we can after gaining some CA. My round will end up being moving towards a spider (if swarm is dead) or shifting and attacking a swarm, and putting an inspiring word on myself.
>> No. 1032 edit
and does Anon still gain the defenses from his second wind with invigorating stride?
>> No. 1033 edit
>>1032
I think so
>> No. 1034 edit
>>1031
I'm actually thinking of setting up a mini-nova with my weapon's daily power by charging the big spider with Hold Fast. On a hit, it's effectively taken out of the fight against everybody else and suffers some significant autodamage, and everybody gets untyped +1 to attack and +4 to damage to take out all the other enemies quickly, but unfortunately on a miss nothing would happen and I'd be in some trouble.
>> No. 1035 edit
>>1032
>>1033
It said he did in Shion's post.
>> No. 1036 edit
>>1035
Oh, I saw it in the spoiler text when you mentioned it, just not next to his name is all.
>> No. 1038 edit
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1038
>>1031
If you want someone to "get the swarm off you," your best bet would probably be to have Bern use Voice of Battle to allow you to shift 2 squares.
>> No. 1040 edit
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1040
>>1034
..I think I just had a better idea. I charge in using Virtuous Strike (no OAs against me because Badge of the Berserker) and my weapon's daily power, and save Hold Fast for if it has any bright ideas about trying to get away and attack, since its Web Glide can't be used if C-12 is blocked and shifting would only allow it to reposition itself at best. So it can only attack me or the Spirit Companion, but it still won't be able to get away without risking an OA.

Odds are that he'll be all by his lonesome, anyway, as the spiders are likely to attack Sureiya, Michael, and the Guardian instead of returning to their leader (unless it decides to draw one in with its power and eat it, in which case that's one less foe to worry about).

This all creates a very risky Catch-22 situation for the Doomweaver, which is pretty much what being a defender is all about, while at the same time buffing the entire party for a little more damage in the coming round. About the only downside I can see is that I can't mark the spider to give it a reason not to attack Bern's spirit companion, but you can't have everything.

This level of planning is possible for ASTAROTH. What do you think, everyone?
>> No. 1041 edit
>>1040
The only other problem is it's web burst, if it puts it right on top of you guys there. (Or even on top of itself, letting the fire orb burn us by burning the web.)
>> No. 1042 edit
>>1040
Actually, I thought of another problem: the guardian may end up hitting somebody with its attack again, so Hide, if you do get Voice of Battle used on Michael, might I suggest asking to be moved to D-16? You'll get combat advantage against the deathjump spider there so your attack would be more likely to land a hit, and be in a perfect position to use Bastion of Defense (remember that we can afford to burn through dailies more so than healing surges and ways to use said surges). If you hit, everybody gets a +1 power bonus to defenses (Bernkastel doesn't need to reposition Spirit of Not-Athas) and 8 temporary hitpoints, and the deathjump spider gets seriously banged up. Even on a miss, everybody gets temporary hitpoints, an amount that would at least nullify the guardian's attack completely even if it rolled maximum damage (Sureiya's right in the probable line of fire, no pun intended). And since you're taking ongoing damage from two sources, it'll be a boon to your survivability (I may grant divine mettle to you on my turn if you think you need it, otherwise I'll probably use dragon breath to further discourage attacks by the spiders). What do you think?
>> No. 1043 edit
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1043
>>1041
Oh crap, I forgot about that. That really throws a wrench into my plan if it can generate safe gliding just like that.
>> No. 1044 edit
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1044
>>1042
And I realize I also neglected the range of Voice of Battle, so if it was in the position I suggested before, then it wouldn't be able to affect you at all. You'd have to attack the swarm from your current position or shift a square down to get Bastion of Defense's benefits, rather than against the deathjump spider threatening Sariel. And in that case, it'd be overkill, anyway, since it could very well die for violating my sanction after it takes its ongoing fire damage. The only way it'd be worthwhile is to shift and attack the spider at H-13, which would put you within the guardian's blast radius again.

On the other hand, it'd probably attack you right after your turn anyway since you're sitting next to it. May need to just heal yourself, grit your teeth, and prepare for the worst if you're not pulled out of there.
>> No. 1045 edit
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1045
>>1042
Don't worry about what the fire guardian's going to hit right now, given that pretty much every enemy's position is going to change before your next turn (with the exception of the doomweaver).
>> No. 1046 edit
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1046
>>1045
Right now, I'm not, actually, for I have a cunning plan to take the Doomweaver out of the equation and not have to worry about who gets attacked by what~
>> No. 1047 edit
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1047
>>1046
Bernkastel:
Healing spirit on Michael (Torinn gets leftovers)
Bernkastel move to G-16 to be in range for Spirit of Grief's Shadow, Spirit Companion to E-12 to be in range for Voice of Battle and impose penalty on Doomweaver's saves
Bernkastel use Spirit of Grief's Shadow on Spider Doomweaver, leaving it unable to actively harm anybody this turn and possibly even next turn
(Action point) Spirit Companion use Voice of Battle on Spider Swarm 2, move Michael to H-14 (if it doesn't die now, it will on its turn, or come very close)

Michael:
Michael delay until after Sariel

Deathjump Spider 2:
Deathjump Spider 2 will attack Sureiya, Michael or the Guardian. Hopefully Michael, since his hitpoints will be relatively low at that point, so that he can use Vengeance is Mine and move Sureiya to I-13 or I-12 and attack together, while hopefully discouraging enemies from moving to the I row where the Guardian might hit them

Sariel:
Sariel stands up, if necessary (if not, use standard action attack with flaming sphere after moving fireball to E-10)
Sariel moves fireball to E-10. The Doomweaver -could- attack the spirit companion on its turn and remove the penalty, but that'd leave it vulnerable to more autodamage and maybe even another standard action attack from the fireball
Sariel uses orb of imposition on Spider Doomweaver and Michael to cripple its saving throws further and help Michael overcome his afflictions

Michael:
Michael uses inspiring word on self
Use Bastion of Defense on Deathjump Spider 2 and give everyone THPs (if spider moved to attack Guardian, move to J-12 and attack, skipping next step)
Shift to I-16, clear of Guardian's blast radius
Michael rolls saving throw with bonus

Even if everything misses, the spiders that act next are extremely unlikely to kill anybody before Torinn's turn (Bastion of Health's THPs), and Torinn will react based on their actions. Furthermore, the Doomweaver is taken out of the battle for a round (Spirit of Grief's Shadow dazing and slowing for a round), more or less, which removes the most damaging attacker.

How's that?
>> No. 1048 edit
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1048
>>1047
>Sariel uses orb of imposition on Spider Doomweaver and Michael to cripple its saving throws further and help Michael overcome his afflictions
I assume you mean orb of fickle fate.
>> No. 1049 edit
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1049
>>1048
I thought I corrected that one. How'd it creep back in there?

But yes, Orb of Fickle Fate is what I meant.
>> No. 1050 edit
Despite solid plan, question: reason for spirit at E-12 over D-12?
>> No. 1063 edit
I'm really enjoying the Robot Chicken D&D video. I'll have to check out the Penny arcade one if they have a video, if not, podcast.
>> No. 1064 edit
>>1063
They have three big podcasts, then one shorter one with a smaller party in Dark Sun (no videos that I'm aware of).
>> No. 1065 edit
>>1064
I just discovered the pax 2010 (in fall) video, so I'm checking that out right now, then i'll look at the podcasts.
>> No. 1066 edit
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1066
Planning for the best possible chance of making at least one enemy die this round:

Bernkastel:

Shift to G-17, Spirit Companion to C-11
Healing Spirit on Sariel
Claws of the Eagle on Myn, attack Deathjump Spider 1 (D-14)
Make saving throw (+2 bonus from Amulet of Physical Resolve)

Deathjump Spider moves near Sariel and attacks if not dead and doesn't flee

Sariel:

Use second wind to offset prone condition and recover from spider attack along with poison
Move Flaming Sphere to D-9
Sustain Flaming Sphere
Saving throw

Michael:

Move to G-15
Inspired Belligerence on Deathjump Spider 2 (H-15) to give Sureiya combat advantage against it and a damage bonus
Intuitive Strike against Deathjump Spider 2 (H-15)
Direct the Strike on Sureiya, attack Deathjump Spider 2 (H-15) May provoke opportunity attack, which will trigger sanction for 7 automatic damage.
Saving throw

I'm hoping that we
>> No. 1069 edit
>>1066
And I mixed up Spider 1 with Spider 2.
>> No. 1070 edit
Aha! I knew there was something like crafting or some neat little skills. I saw it being mentioned under Martial Practices in Martial Power 2, and boy was I surprised. A lot neat little things there.
>> No. 1072 edit
>>1070
The only drawback being that some cost a healing surge, but I suppose it's really up to the DM. Unless that's just the learning cost, not the cost to use it. (You know, learning how to train in it!)
>> No. 1073 edit
>>1072
And requires a martial multiclass and a feat to take.
>> No. 1074 edit
>>1073
I don't see the multiclass part, but if it requires a feat just to begin learning any of these, that's a bit silly in my opinion.
>> No. 1075 edit
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1075
>>1073
>>1074
If you're already a martial class, you don't need a martial multi-class to take them. The Practiced Study feat is for "any martial class." No other prerequisites.

However, you do have to take the Practiced Study feat to use them. They work via largely the same principle as rituals, so it's the same thing as taking the Ritual Caster feat.
>> No. 1076 edit
>>1075
Ah, alright. I'd probably just use it more on a dwarf for flavor (forging weapons or armor) if I was a knight or something.
>> No. 1077 edit
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1077
By the way, WotC is previewing the Heroes of Shadow book here.

http://wizards.com/dnd/files/HoS_ToC.pdf

>Blackguard is apparently a striker
>Binder is a controller, has no warlock's curse

That's basically what I've picked up so far.
>> No. 1078 edit
>>1077
Don't forget that you can now pick Vampire as a class.
>> No. 1091 edit
Suggesting:

Bern use Thunder Bear's Warding against Spider Swarm 3 (H-13) to hopefully give it the nudge it needs to die from the ongoing damage and move elemental spirit to E-7.

Sariel's lucky the spider stayed by the orb. She can stand up, sustain it, then cast Winged Horde on the nearby enemies.

Michael could use Direct the Strike to help Sureiya land the killing blow on the remaining deathjump spider. Maybe roll more saving throws against restraining if possible.
>> No. 1092 edit
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1092
>>1091
Sariel casting a ranged or area spell from her current position would provoke an OA from the swarm that's still on top of her. Besides that, she still has her encounter powers to spend (maze of mirrors could be effective against the doomweaver).
>> No. 1093 edit
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1093
what's the plan now
>> No. 1096 edit
Warlord's Strike the swarm. It has a good chance to push it into dead territory during its turn, it compensates for reduced damage with a boost to those rolls, if you're worried about it missing Michael can use Viper's Strike and an AP to use Warlord's Strike, and we have enough encounter powers left over that we can afford to not be stingy with them.

I really think that's the best option at the moment, but it's not my call.
>> No. 1097 edit
Hrm, probably after I do whatever I end up choosing, I'll make a readied action (movement) to shift one space, provided I shake off restrained. I still really don't think Warlord's strike is worth using on a swarm, and if I do at least 5-6 more damage than the reduction, the swarm near me should die anyway from fire damage on it's turn.
>> No. 1098 edit
>>1097
Of course, I don't mind any thoughts on this slight plan at all.
>> No. 1099 edit
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1099
>>1096
>>1097
Remember that readying an action is a standard action, so if you attack, there's no option of setting up readied actions.
>> No. 1100 edit
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1100
>>1097
>>1098
That's why I said go with something like Viper's Strike first and decide after you've seen if you hit or not (I did say that, right?). You don't have to use Warlord's Strike if you don't want to, you can use whatever attack you want. I'm just asking that you kill it before its turn begins if possible.
>> No. 1101 edit
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1101
>>1099
So it is. I didn't realize that.
>> No. 1102 edit
>>1099
Oh darn it. I glanced past that I guess.
>> No. 1103 edit
Definitely a hit. Only 8 damage total though, so reduced to 3. Saving throws next..
>> No. 1104 edit
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1104
>>1103
Is that enough for a kill?
>> No. 1106 edit
>>1104
I dunno, but both saving throws passed.
>> No. 1107 edit
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1107
>>1106
Remember in the future that being restrained is also a -2 to attack rolls.
>> No. 1108 edit
I just noticed I forgot about the -2 to attack rolls as well, but it still should hit I think!
>> No. 1131 edit
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1131
I'm going to bed now, so feel free to take your time on the actions, anon-kun. Here's how I see your options:

1. If you can attack the F-6 square of the spider, you suffer no penalties, as that is on your current level. All other squares the spider is occupying are elevation 1. If you want to attack this square with a ranged attack, move up around the platform (like around F-10 or F-9) to avoid cover.
2. You can try to jump up. Even if you don't clear 5 feet, you can catch yourself and try to pull yourself up as a separate move action. Of course, you couldn't charge as part of this move action.
3. You could try the jump, not grab on and land on your feet, then charge around, but you would have to enter one of the web-filled squares near it.

Food for thought.
I AM ruling that the ledge the spider is up on gives it cover against attacks that originate from lower elevations, though since it's currently occupying a square that is on your elevation in addition to higher elevations as long as you target that square it doesn't have cover.
>> No. 1132 edit
>>1131
I didn't knew I could move to F-6, that's indeed the best action.
>> No. 1133 edit
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1133
>>1131
One last thing I think it's only fair to warn you of before you get so intent on "trapping" it: keep in mind the wall is not a REAL barrier for the spider. Because with spider climb, it can climb right up the wall.
>> No. 1134 edit
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1134
>>1132
No, no, I'm saying you want to attack/target F-6. I was suggesting moving to F-9 or F-10, and throw your sword at it, which you can do. This is the "safest" route, as you can attack and you don't have to enter a web-filled square.
>> No. 1137 edit
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.aspx?x=dnd/4ex/20110311

On a side note, vampire class looks weird to me. More like a 3rd edition class, which kind of alarms me. You have bonuses, but also certain weaknesses... and all of your encounter/daily powers seem to be chosen for you. You only get to pick your feats. That's a lot more like a 3rd edition class.

With that said, the mechanics themselves seem interesting enough. I'm guessing they'll be quite flimsy, with low HP and few surges, but with that regen and ways to regain surges.

Also striking (haha) to me is the fact that heroes of shadow seems to have THREE striker classes and no defenders. Assassin, Blackguard, and Vampire are all strikers, it would seem, and the Binder-Warlock is a controller. Plus new build options for Cleric (leader), Warlock (striker), and Wizard (controller). I guess there are no shadow defenders!
>> No. 1138 edit
Tough luck there Anon, I'm still cackling though since you almost got it!
>> No. 1139 edit
By the way, if you want to, I'll allow humans to swap out their extra at-will for Heroic Effort next level. If Myn wants to swap out Blazing Starfall for Knack for Success, too, that would be fine (could keep using Arcane Reserves effectively a bit longer). It won't count as your retraining for the level.

At first I didn't give much thought to these options, but they've really warmed up to me. So it's something you might want to consider.
>> No. 1140 edit
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1140
You can't say I didn't warn you guys about that jump.
>> No. 1141 edit
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1141
>>1140
Hohoh~ stop acting so mighty, there was no harm with this move.
>> No. 1142 edit
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1142
How to trap a spider that can climb up walls:

Myn:

Move to B-8

Warlock's Curse

Eldritch Blast


Bernkastel:

Spirit companion to E-5, Elemental Spirit to F-9

Claws of the Eagle on Sureiya


Sariel:

Move Flaming Sphere to G-4

Sustain Flaming Sphere

Attack with Flaming Sphere or Maze of Mirrors


Michael:

Inspired Belligerence, if possible

Intuitive Strike, else Warlord's Strike


Torinn:

Move to E-10

Use Vanguard Longsword daily

Charge to E-7 with Hold Fast



Somebody tell me beforehand if any one of these is not possible. For example, if the Flaming Sphere can't move to G-4, move the Spirit Companion there and send the Flaming Sphere to E-5.
>> No. 1143 edit
The spider can climb us to move if needed.
>> No. 1144 edit
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1144
>>1143
No they can't. That's not how spider climb works.
>> No. 1145 edit
Moving through web filled spaces near the spider provokes an opportunity attack or something i believe rin said. Knocks you prone or something.
>> No. 1146 edit
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1146
>>1145
I'm fine with taking shots at it from far away if you don't care for me being close to it.

Or the guardian could just walk over and start messing it up.
>> No. 1147 edit
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1147
>sariel already expended maze of mirrors
derp
Attack with sphere it is.
>> No. 1148 edit
>>1144
Hideling told me Shion say it.
I could be confused, of course.
>> No. 1150 edit
>>1148
It can't climb over a great ball of fire.
>> No. 1151 edit
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1151
>>1139
Just to press the point a little, think about how often you actually use a third at-will, or a dilettante power (particularly if they are extremely situational). And think about how often you could use Heroic Effort/Knack for Success. I'm really liking them, as they're written, except for very specific builds that want to take use of that third at-will or power from another class.

>>1148
>>1144
Technically, what Astaroth is proposing should work because it won't be able to reach the wall. However, though I will allow conjurations to move over the wall and up 5 feet, it will cost them an extra square of movement to do it, I think (I believe this is fair, there don't seem to be many specific rules for moving conjurations in three dimensions).
>> No. 1152 edit
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1152
>>1151
So the spirit companion could still move to G-4 and the flaming sphere to E-5, right?
>> No. 1153 edit
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1153
>>1152
Yes, that should work.
>> No. 1154 edit
>>1151
Well, I use Direct the Strike nearly all the time, and Viper's Strike is only really good if you have a sort of tank that slows/prones enemies. Intuitive is always good besides the damage I guess.
>> No. 1155 edit
>>1154
The cavalier's righteous radiance works on a shift. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
>> No. 1156 edit
>>1155
I see.
>> No. 1157 edit
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1157
>>1154
I thought you in particular might be interested in replacing Viper's Strike with Heroic Effort. Viper's Strike is pretty situational, but Heroic Effort is quite nice (+4 to a failed attack or save per encounter).

Bern's a bit more questionable, as having lots of different ways to help allies is nice, but she might not miss protecting strike too much (particularly once Torinn has a temp HP granting at-will).

As for Myn, I do think I like Knack for Success better than Blazing Starfall, though Starfall has its uses. Just having a little more utility (and one less encounter attack power to burn through) is nice.
>> No. 1158 edit
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1158
>>1157
Bern may not need hers after I get a THP at-will grant, and Heroic Effort is very, very good, but it would be nice to get some at-will THPs for myself as well.
>> No. 1159 edit
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1159
By the way, I'll probably be adding a sort of collected house rules thread soon. When I am less tired (I'll probably be taking a nap soonish). Will contain the feats for multi-classing to a theme, among some other stuff.
>> No. 1160 edit
>>1159
Ah, neat. Maybe we can put the various builds and stuff there too.
>> No. 1161 edit
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1161
>>1160
Actually, I'd prefer that thread limited just to house-rules. But if you want to make a separate thread for builds, feel free. The main game threads are stickied anyway so they'll always remain at the top.
>> No. 1162 edit
>>1159
That sounds like a good idea.
>> No. 1163 edit
Doing that with the SC and the fireball probably won't trap the spider, since Doomweaver should be able to move up+north one square by climbing the wall.
>> No. 1164 edit
>>1163
If G-4 and E-5 are blocked, it can't move towards the wall, since it would need to pass through those spaces to do so.
>> No. 1168 edit
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1168
>>1167
There's only one square for it to crawl on. That's not enough room.
>> No. 1169 edit
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1169
>>1164
Here's a more accurate drawing, but are you sure one square isn't enough?
>> No. 1175 edit
>winged horde instead of fireball
This is a much better idea than what I had planned.
>> No. 1176 edit
Should I stick where I am for now? I'm only asking cause of the fire maybe spreading soon to my web or something.
>> No. 1177 edit
>>1176
Its east side being open is hardly a bad thing at the moment, since it can't climb up the wall.

But if it becomes bloodied, spins a web and uses its web gliding ability to get away, that could be troublesome.

All in all, though, it's better if it can't reach the wall, so I say move back there.
>> No. 1178 edit
>>1177
Then again, the guardian can block its exit to the east, so that's also taken care of.
>> No. 1181 edit
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1181
>>1178
It might not be as easy to trap it as you think, because I just realized the spider can still move directly left, because the part of it that will be "occupying" the space at G-4 can hang at elevation 2, which will not be occupied.
>> No. 1183 edit
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1183
>>1181
Not a problem anymore.
>> No. 1186 edit
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1186
>>1185
>> No. 1188 edit
File 129456877046.png - (33.55KB , 200x200 , knightarou.png )
1188
Plan for the next round:

Attack, attack attack.

We got it where we want it, we have a boost to damage and accuracy, it's almost dead, and everybody's in position to hit it. Just hit it with some damaging attacks (not dailies, though, we really don't need those at the moment), maybe burn through some encounter powers (Myn still has Fey Bargain), and it won't get another turn.
>> No. 1191 edit
File 129997786987.jpg - (68.19KB , 406x375 , badrolls.jpg )
1191
>> No. 1196 edit
>>1191
might wanna just make that into seacats in general
>> No. 1204 edit
File 129998779918.png - (44.15KB , 320x707 , spider doomweaver.png )
1204
Here's the doomweaver's stat block.
>> No. 1210 edit
File 129581681376.jpg - (53.69KB , 372x592 , 1223506856050.jpg )
1210
After Micheal plants the banner and they heal, this is everyone's HP count.

Skill Challenge: Exploring the Cavern
Progress
9/10 Success
0/3 Failure

Players
Myn Nthelsyr (George): 38/38 HP, Darkspiral Aura 4, Sunrod, Concealment
Michael Silversteel (Hideyoshi): 32/35 HP
"Bernkastel" (Bernkastel): 37/38 HP
Torinn Tormine (Astaroth): 42/44 HP, Light
Sariel (Liliane): 26/30
Sureiya (Anonkun): 28/40 HP
Spirit Companion (Bernkastel)
Elemental Spirit (Bernkastel): Grants adjacent allies +1 to all defenses
Roth (Sariel): (Passive Mode)
Sunrod (Sureiya): (G-16) Sunrod
>> No. 1214 edit
>>1157
>>1158
Second thought : Spirit of the Tempest replaces Protecting Strike to grant saving throws at-will. With the loss of divine mettle, it seems like a fair compensation to fill the void.
>> No. 1222 edit
still no responses to Rin's Elementalist build yet! Blasphemers!
>> No. 1242 edit
File 129757250051.png - (58.56KB , 330x443 , kan_fumana1.png )
1242
After all the ghouls, tentacles, mushrooms, ballistaes and spiders finding Thelkra this easily seems fishy.
But researching about Trolls? She didn't even wanted to tell us in what was she working before. And there's a big weird ritual circle here, could this be some kind of ilusion or trap? Should we tell her about our mission?
>> No. 1243 edit
File 129920716263.png - (21.13KB , 200x200 , Harry Potter studying for his OWLs.png )
1243
>>1242
Thurisvant eth donsjeret.
Every lair has two ways out.

The odds of there being a separate entrance / exit are within the realm of possibility.
>> No. 1253 edit
File 12973099045.jpg - (121.35KB , 268x358 , astonished.jpg )
1253
>>1252
>> No. 1254 edit
File 130022147381.png - (7.32KB , 124x105 , georgebu.png )
1254
>>1253

W-what.
>> No. 1255 edit
File 129723418350.jpg - (85.92KB , 449x700 , excited.jpg )
1255
>>1254
That was cool!
>> No. 1256 edit
File 130022277330.jpg - (32.67KB , 155x253 , georgeehehe.jpg )
1256
>>1255

G-guu.
>> No. 1258 edit
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1258
You're unlikely to get more hints from me, but if you absolutely want one before giving it a try, make an Insight check or an Intelligence check, and if you can beat the hidden DC I won't tell you, I might give you a very general hint.
>> No. 1261 edit
>>1258
Int check? Would that just be a roll+int mod?
>> No. 1262 edit
File 129757993589.png - (76.58KB , 224x401 , BUP_0423.png )
1262
>>1261
Yes, it's under the rules for "ability checks." 1d20 + one-half level + Int mod.
>> No. 1263 edit
>>1262
I see.
>> No. 1264 edit
File 129674887945.jpg - (278.84KB , 600x799 , armslooklikedanglinglegs.jpg )
1264
If the circle being green means the green orbs go there, then where would the red orbs go?
>> No. 1265 edit
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1265
>>1264
Who knows?
>> No. 1266 edit
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1266
>>1265
I was speaking rhetorically. The only other things in the room that could be considered red are the torches, though that is a bit of a stretch.
>> No. 1316 edit
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1316
To commemorate solving the puzzle, here's a sound clip~
>> No. 1335 edit
I believe bern mentioned she wanted to use protective roots, so we should stay near.
>> No. 1336 edit
If there was any question about it, no, the spirits don't spend double movement to move on the stairs.

Since they kind of just float above the ground their movement rate isn't affected.
>> No. 1337 edit
Bernkastel - delay until just after Michael (next round)

Torinn - J-25 or J-26
Sureiya - L-24, L-25, or L-26
Myn - K-24 or K-26
Sariel - L-24, L-25, or L-26

Thelkra - delay until just after Bernkastel if she wants Protective Roots, possibly move + ready action
Michael - K-24 or K-26, and then one action left; possibly ready an action for ???

Bernkastel - spirit companion to K-25 (two move actions if the shaman herself wants to move; she doens't need to be adjacent to spirit companion for roots), protective roots
>> No. 1338 edit
>>1337
Shouldn't you take those move actions now? Double move requires a standard action.
>> No. 1339 edit
Whether I delay or not depends on if I want my initiative position before or after the ???'s. This turn is my last turn before ??? takes another.
>> No. 1355 edit
anon-kun, I don't see any possible way you can make it to H-16. Are you remembering it costs double move to move down the stairs? You can make it to the 21 row, at most.
>> No. 1356 edit
>>1355
Along these lines, do note that the stairs leading west are still "heading downward" and still require double movement to descend. Unless you want to risk falling.
>> No. 1361 edit
File 130049169694.png - (514.58KB , 482x630 , Corner.png )
1361
Anyway, since it seems to be a common mistake, let me just remind everyone that corners block diagonal movement. So, you can't move from J-24 to I-23 directly.
>> No. 1367 edit
Rin said she rolled 3d6 and got 4, 1, 1. This is probably for damage, so 6 total from just the dice and 4 from a modifier makes 10. Safe to say the orc's damage has +4 mod.
>> No. 1369 edit
File 130053042141.png - (34.13KB , 346x481 , Bow Implement.png )
1369
The most hilarious part is that it works

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Bow Monk, level 10
Elf, Monk
Monastic Tradition: Centered Breath
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Bow)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Ki Focuses)
Background: Elfharrow (Elfharrow Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 13, Dex 20, Int 8, Wis 20, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 10.


AC: 26 Fort: 21 Reflex: 24 Will: 24
HP: 70 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 17

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +16, Stealth +15, Perception +17, Thievery +15

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +4, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +10, Endurance +6, Heal +10, History +4, Insight +10, Intimidate +5, Nature +13, Religion +4, Streetwise +5, Athletics +6

FEATS
Level 1: Deadly Draw
Level 2: Versatile Expertise
Level 4: Unarmored Agility
Level 6: Wild Elf Luck
Level 8: Implement Focus (Longbow)
Level 10: Improved Defenses

POWERS
Monk at-will 1: Five Storms
Monk at-will 1: Steel Wind
Monk encounter 1: Drunken Monkey
Monk daily 1: Whirling Mantis Step
Monk utility 2: Swift Flight
Monk encounter 3: Open the Gate of Battle
Monk daily 5: Stunning Palm
Monk utility 6: Centered Defense
Monk encounter 7: Eternal Mountain
Monk daily 9: Twilight Touch
Monk utility 10: Iron Dragon Defense

ITEMS
Monk Unarmed Strike, Bracers of Archery (heroic tier), Magic Ki Focus +3, Ki Longbow +1, Arrows (120), Siberys Shard of the Mage (heroic tier), Flowform Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +2, Acrobat Boots (heroic tier), Gauntlets of Blood (heroic tier), Steadfast Amulet +2, Viper Belt (heroic tier), Adventurer's Kit, Climber's Kit, Camouflaged Clothing, Everburning Torch, Inquisitive's Kit, Waterskin (5)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
>> No. 1372 edit
I believe that on my next turn I'll probably move up, use my Vanguard Longsword's daily power to give everybody a boost to damage and attack rolls for a round, charge with Hold Fast, then burn an action point to use Majestic Halo. So it'd be nice if everybody was within ten squares of me.

Of course, if the charge misses, then nothing happens, so let's hope it doesn't come to that.
>> No. 1373 edit
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1373
>>1372
Just to be certain on this, I did double-check the rules compendium, and you CAN spend an action point to take an extra action, even after charging. At least, as I read them, that's what the rules say (wanted to be certain because charging usually precludes further actions, but it does allow free actions).

So that plan should work.
>> No. 1374 edit
Oh and like I mentioned to Rin, the PP previews for that Shadows book next month are up. Some with actual PDFs.
>> No. 1376 edit
>>1374
I looked at those. They're very flavorful, but they're not so great mechanically.
>> No. 1379 edit
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1379
>>1376
The first one actually looks okay for chargers, and particularly flavorful for charging druids (predators), but from an optimization standpoint, it's probably never going to be the 'best' choice.
>> No. 1380 edit
File 130058375365.png - (31.29KB , 200x200 , shakan_1.png )
1380
Um, could someone trained in nature make a check next turn?
>> No. 1390 edit
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1390
>Dragon
Okay guys, this is the day all of us waited us. Will fame and glory receive us? Or shall we peril alongside our new companion?
Alright, so what's the plan? We expected to nova the orc, but even then I doubt the dragon will dissapear.

Okay, we might need to spam that dragon with checks. One thing we know is than those evil dragons usually attack twice per turn, sometimes have counter attacks, and maybe it's oportunity attacks have more than one square of range.
Any ideas?
>> No. 1392 edit
Does it speak draconic?
>> No. 1393 edit
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1393
>>1392
That would be a reasonable assumption to make.
>> No. 1398 edit
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1398
You know, I was -this- close to saying the dragon was no longer surprised and rolls initiative NOW because you talked to it (and thus announced your presence and intentions to it). But I decided that would be too jerk of a move to pull, no matter how much it would make sense.

I'll just have to warn you about that kind of thing in the future. It's my fault for not thinking that through when answering your question about it speaking draconic, because I knew you were gonna try and talk to it.

In the future, though, remember that you can't have both surprise and negotiation. It's one or the other. If you command something's attention, it won't be surprised anymore.
>> No. 1400 edit
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1400
>>1398
Sorry, my bad.
>> No. 1401 edit
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1401
>>1400
No, no, like I said, my fault for not mentioning it before.
>> No. 1403 edit
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1403
Considering that the thaumaturge mentioned something about "plans" and that we may need some help backing up Thelkra's story regarding her absence (and may get a reward if we proved we stopped a significant threat), it might be in our best interests to take the Fell Orc in alive.

Thoughts?
>> No. 1404 edit
For various reasons, I agree that we shouldn't kill the orc. On that note, I want to suggest that Sureiya charge this orc.

...Do we eventually get Sariel's arcana knowledge check?
>> No. 1406 edit
>>1404
Why charge the orc? He could do a lot more damage to the dragon. Especially if he walked up to it and used Off-Hand Strike, Twin Strike, and burned an action point to use Jaws of the Wolf, using furious assault at some point during his turn. It's better to not give it a chance to act during this encounter.
>> No. 1407 edit
>>1406
...I was thinking more about the damage our group would take, but since vanguard longsword effect, maybe it's better to attack the dragon? I doubt that the dragon would die before attacking something, though if it has an immediate reaction power that triggers upon being bloodied, there should be merit in bloodying the dragon during a surprise round.

Arcane knowledge should help here... Where's George?
>> No. 1408 edit
>>1407
I said it's possible, not that it's probable. The odds of it dying this round are pretty unlikely, but we can certainly put it close enough to death that it may not even get a chance to act.
>> No. 1424 edit
File 129954997171.png - (96.62KB , 320x1039 , youngfelldragon.png )
1424
For reference (this is NOT the dragon you are fighting).
>> No. 1429 edit
File 129824013925.png - (78.27KB , 224x401 , BUP_0416.png )
1429
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Heroic Palock, level 10
Tiefling, Paladin|Warlock
Hybrid Paladin: Hybrid Paladin Reflex
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid): Infernal Pact (Hybrid)
Hybrid Warlock: Hybrid Warlock Reflex
Hybrid Talent: Paladin Armor Proficiency
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Holy Symbol)
Background: Baldur's Gate (Baldur's Gate Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 20, Dex 10, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 20.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 16, Dex 10, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 16.


AC: 28 Fort: 24 Reflex: 23 Will: 23
HP: 78 Surges: 13 Surge Value: 19

TRAINED SKILLS
Streetwise +17, Endurance +13, Diplomacy +15

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +1, Arcana +6, Bluff +12, Dungeoneering +4, Heal +4, History +6, Insight +4, Intimidate +10, Nature +4, Perception +4, Religion +6, Stealth +3, Thievery +1, Athletics +2

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Wrath of the Crimson Legion
Level 4: Imperious Majesty
Level 6: Versatile Expertise
Level 8: Sacrifice to Caiphon
Level 10: Improved Defenses

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Enfeebling Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Hellish Rebuke
Hybrid encounter 1: Valorous Smite
Hybrid daily 1: Armor of Agathys
Hybrid utility 2: Virtue
Hybrid encounter 3: Lure of Minauros
Hybrid daily 5: Unyielding Faith
Hybrid utility 6: Shadowslip
Hybrid encounter 7: Price of Cowardice
Hybrid daily 9: Summons of Khirad
Hybrid utility 10: Bond of Brotherhood

ITEMS
Dwarven Layered Plate Armor +2, Vigilant Blade Longsword +2, Heavy Shield, Steadfast Amulet +2, Boots of the Fencing Master (heroic tier), Gauntlets of Blood (heroic tier), Couters of Second Chances (heroic tier), Diamond Cincture (heroic tier), Casque of Tactics (heroic tier), Adventurer's Kit, Holy Symbol, Journeybreads (10), Waterskin (3), Everburning Torch
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

This one was fun to make.
>> No. 1430 edit
Choices right now:
Move into flanking position after drawing my longsword.
Use Inspired Belligerence
Use Action Point
Use Warlord's Strike (or Intutitive Strike)
>> No. 1431 edit
>>1430
...I'd be much too far away to heal on my turn. Would it be bad to simply Direct the Strike, heal, and stay out of the dragon's range? (Ideally, at least two squares between you and the dragon, like now.)
>> No. 1432 edit
>>1431
Well, giving everyone combat advantage against the dragon(before maybe getting knocked back), and dealing some nice 2[W] damage to maybe get it close to being finished off seems a little more important than healing right now.
>> No. 1433 edit
>>1432
In that case, would you mind delaying until after the dragon's instinctive action? I plan to shift Torinn to D-something with Voice of Battle, and the dragon will have no enemy in range to attack during its Instinctive Action if I dismiss my spirit companion.
>> No. 1434 edit
>>1433
Then.. How am I suppose to get combat advantage?
>> No. 1435 edit
>>1434
and if I don't end up doing enough damage, you might be able to finish it off with the damage bonus from Warlord strike and inspired belligerence..
>> No. 1436 edit
Inspired Belligerence works from range, doesn't it?
>> No. 1437 edit
>>1434
Well... you could go after he charges, or something?

I'll let you decide, then.
>> No. 1438 edit
>>1436
Yes, but the requirement is an enemy granting combat advantage to me or an ally. It's not like we can't come up with something else in the meantime.
>> No. 1439 edit
Save Inspired Belligerence for the caster. Warlord's Strike should be enough.
>> No. 1440 edit
Yeah, don't worry too much, that dragon could even die in your next hit.
>> No. 1441 edit
>>1439
So... Draw Sword (Minor) Heal you (minor) Move to flank the dragon and warlord strike? (Action Point)
>> No. 1442 edit
Sounds like a plan, that should finish it.
>> No. 1445 edit
That orc isn't gonna get away for long if Thelkra has anything to say about it, probably~ Really depends on where she teleported I guess.
>> No. 1446 edit
New plan: take dragon in alive by intimidating it into surrendering.

Or cut off it's head and bring it back as a souvenir.
>> No. 1447 edit
Yeah, that's my plan Astaroth, actually I wanna tame the dragon or something but I wonder if that's posible.
>> No. 1448 edit
>>1446
I'm all for taking it's head. Since it's probably chaotic evil and whatnot. And a good way to get some reputation! George wants it for a mount though, unsurprisingly.
>> No. 1449 edit
>>1448
A trained mount is not a bad idea, all for the sake of the dragon circus.
>> No. 1450 edit
>>1449
If we were to do that, we'd need to take it alive anyway.
>> No. 1452 edit
>>1450
The question is, how long would it stay subdued, would it try to get away at the first sign of open sky, etc. And if we're stuck on it when it flies to wherever it starts flying.. Our only options are try and kill it while flying on it and risk getting knocked off and falling to our deaths, etc.
>> No. 1453 edit
>>1452
leave it bloodied, tie it up with rope, lead it from a distance, and shoot it down if it tries to run.
>> No. 1454 edit
>>1453
Good idea. The question being how are we gonna get this thing out of here, and hopefully not get ambushed on the way there... Hope that the possible bad guys working in the background doesn't end up using it against us too.
>> No. 1455 edit
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1455
>>1453
>hempen rope
>holding a giant fiery dragon that is literally spewing fire from its carcass
>> No. 1456 edit
>>1455
Heh.. Oh yeah...

By the way Astaroth, Rin said she'll probably have Lili at the Arcanium place in Baldur's gate when we get back until she's able to play again. We'll work something out for a Controller Role spot if we need it I think she said..
>> No. 1457 edit
>>1455
Shoot. I didn't think of that.
>>1456
Awww...
I guess it does tie in with those discs...
>> No. 1458 edit
Hmm... What are the odds the caster poofed into the room we just left?
>> No. 1459 edit
>>1458
I was thinking that too, or maybe where we killed the elemental thing. Another option is somewhere up the path Thelkra came from.
>> No. 1463 edit
victory da
>> No. 1465 edit
Can Sureiya do the same thing and give chase?
>> No. 1467 edit
>>1465
Beheading is okay. Anon is thinking about it, but IC his character doesn't like arcana or something.
>> No. 1483 edit
I wonder, would it be posible to use the dragons remains for equipment?
>> No. 1485 edit
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1485
>>1483
None of you possess the skill to craft the dragon's hide into usable armor or weaponry, especially without the proper tools.
>> No. 1486 edit
>>1485
Could Tenser's disk (with a bunch of aid anothers) carry it back?
>> No. 1487 edit
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1487
>>1486
...The tenser's disk is like 3 feet in diameter.

I don't care how many aid another checks you have, it can't balance on it.
>> No. 1488 edit
>>1487
If we want to take her back, what do you recomend us to do?
>> No. 1491 edit
>>1487

Can we turn Tenser's disk on its side and have it push the dragon for us?
>> No. 1492 edit
>>1488
Well, removing the orc's body from the head would make it much lighter.
>> No. 1493 edit
File 12949882016.jpg - (15.04KB , 404x363 , Shion Huh.jpg )
1493
>>1488
You ARE talking about the dragon, right?

>>1491
>>1492
You lost me.

Anyway, the dragon was summoned to this plane from the Shadowfell so its body will disappear (return to the Shadowfell) after a little while anyway.
>> No. 1494 edit
Astaroth, I'm getting interesed in this combo:

Combo 5: The Crippler

Piece 1: Twin Strike (At-Will Attack Power, PHB)
Piece 2: Hobbling Strike (Heroic Tier Feat, MP 2)
Piece 3: Vicious Advantage (Heroic Tier Feat, PHB 3)
Piece 4 (optional): World Serpent's Grasp (Heroic Tier Feat, HotFK)
Piece 5 (optional): Grounding Shot (Heroic Tier Feat, PHB 3)

Sequence:
Standard Action - Twin Strike (use Hobbling Strike to lose one die of Quarry damage in order to slow the target).

Description: Another eternal-Combat Advantage combo, this will give you two chances to apply a slowing effect, which of course has its own benefits apart from giving you CA (though it does cost some damage). The optional pieces give you a chance to knock your opponent prone should both attacks hit, as well as keeping Ranged users from unintentionally applying penalties to themselves.


I believe you once mentioned about the World Serpent's Grasp feat. So, what do think about it? If both of us get similar feats we can make this combo become more effective.
>> No. 1497 edit
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1497
Oh, and lest I forget, here's the full stat block of the monster.

Note I reserve the right to change things like Instinctive Attack from 10 + initiative to 10 - initiative if I think it makes the combat flow better.
>> No. 1498 edit
File 129642654978.jpg - (131.12KB , 516x727 , Tune the Rainbow.jpg )
1498
>>1497
Also, just a heads-up, I am strongly considering moving our default character sheets over to this website: http://pifro.com/pro/

It provides a lot more options and customization than the myth-weavers sheet. With that said, I guess I won't force anyone to switch who doesn't want to--all I want is a sheet from you that I can access at any time, online, that's up-to-date.
>> No. 1499 edit
I'll try writing up something diplomacy like when i get the chance, maybe astaroth (or maybe Thelkra) can do something intimidating.
>> No. 1501 edit
I'd ratheeer have had Myn do the intimidate check, but here you are.
>> No. 1502 edit
Awesome, Astaroth, the roll was perfect.
Now that it's intimidated how about a diplomacy check?
>> No. 1504 edit
>>1502
my roll was pretty good for Diplomacy.
>> No. 1507 edit
I guess that dragon isn't getting a-head in life.
>> No. 1508 edit
>>1507
ba da tsss
>> No. 1510 edit
Dibs on belt of vigor.
>> No. 1511 edit
Neat little marionette, almost a shame to sell really.
The sword would be better for Anon (since I can't use Bastard Swords yet anyway)
The belt I guess could be good for anyone.

and in order to not make bern's class not as weak/gimp, I might have to stay pure leader ;_;
>> No. 1512 edit
>>1511
Er, not weak/gimp I guess. Bern's is just going to be more controller and we'd still need a pure leader..
>> No. 1514 edit
>>1512
We could roll 1d2 to see who gets to change class. Alternatively, a fantasy scene pistol duel to deny existence of the other.
>> No. 1515 edit
>>1514
No, it's fine.
>> No. 1516 edit
and Bern, please don't be put off from the whole hybrid thing just because of earlier. That just serves to make me feel worse.
>> No. 1517 edit
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1517
>>1514
Anyways, What do you think about the slow + World Serpent's Grasp? I believe if we take feats or powers than slow the others we can make this combo become really effective. If someone else is interesed in this I was planning in retraining weapon focus to learn Hobbling Strike, and become able to slow creatures as well.
>> No. 1519 edit
>>1517
I think it's a bit of a good idea, because losing that weapon focus in any way isn't going to harm us, and it should have good synergy when Astaroth goes Cavalier (if he does). Not to mention it'll keep our enemies from going anywhere once you catch up to them and hit. (Turning Twin Strike into a slowing+Proning power sounds good to me.)
>> No. 1520 edit
>>1519
There's dangerous symmetry with dazing and knocking prone.
>> No. 1521 edit
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1521
>>1519
I rather firmly disagree, because Hobbling Strike also requires him to give up Hunter's Quarry damage (all of it for Heroic Tier). The ranger excels at doing damage, and lots of it. There's little reason to try and do something that the rest of the party should be covering. Prone isn't that great of a condition anyway, unless you can combine it with something else.

World Serpent's Grasp might be worth taking by itself at some point, but Two-Weapon Fighting seems like an attractive option to me (big surprise, it's more damage).
>> No. 1523 edit
>>1521
I guess that's true too..
>> No. 1524 edit
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1524
>>1521
Well, atfer losing our controller I was thinking in getting the party using this combo, but if you think Hobbling Strike is not worth it then I will not swap.
On the other way, if someone is interesed in using this combo I could still train World Serpent's Grasp, but we would need a constant power to keep slowed the enemies.
>> No. 1526 edit
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1526
>>1523
>>1524
That's just my opinion, of course. I'm not going to try and stop you if you want to take it.

I just think the ranger is shooting himself in the foot by actively reducing his damage potential to try and play around with controller toys. You can pull it off, but in a few levels the damage gap between the strikers and non-strikers is likely to become much larger, and that's when the party will be counting on the strikers to make enemies dead before they become a threat to your survival. I say grab as many of the damage-increasing feats now as you can, so when you reach that point, you're performing to your maximum potential.

And it may just be my own opinion, or a part of DnD 4th edition, that the one-trick pony that has a really amazing trick is better (and more entertaining) than the pony who knows a handful of mediocre tricks. In other words, to maximize your character's potential, play to your strengths. The paladin punishes, the warlord enables, the ranger kills things. I think it is best to work towards improving your ability to do your specialty before branching out. Again, just my two cents and advice. Feel free to build your character as you like~
>> No. 1527 edit
Luckblade- Anon
Ritual Book- Sariel
Staff (I assume George, I dunno who can use staves here)
Belt-Astaroth
Dragon Marionette-(Me? It's more cause I like it than wanting to sell it though)
Vial of Residdium (Goes into the Residdium pile for the party I think.)
Clockwork Toy(Bern)
>> No. 1528 edit
>>1526
Paladins are amazing punishers since their divine challenge works as a no action attack, yet they can still react with daily and encounter powers that hurt even more and pile on some really nasty status effects (blinding as an immediate interrupt as an encounter power ). Furthermore, while on its own it may never do as much damage as a fighter's basic attack immediate reaction, it never misses, and there are items, feats and even paragon paths that can augment it to a damage amount that is at least within shouting distance of a fighter's damage potential (43 damage by the end of epic tier if the challenge is violated is not something you can just ignore). That's not even getting into the stuff that can be piled on violating challenges and sanctions either (weakening, slowing - hello world serpent's grasp - saving throw penalties, sliding, and completely ignoring any resistances and immunities a target possesses just because you have them challenged). So yeah, they have to work for it, but they can punish several foes at once, even if they're dazed or stunned, which normally requires an epic destiny to work around.

Whether the cavalier can live up to this is debateable, but I still like what I see too much to reconsider switching.
>> No. 1535 edit
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1535
>>1527

Staffu GET~
>> No. 1536 edit
My diplomacy is stronger than yours.
Your argument is irrelevant.
>> No. 1537 edit
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1537
>>1536

>implying that she won't kill her out of rage anyways
>> No. 1538 edit
>>1537
Torinn's doing it because he believes its the right thing.

Me, I'm doing it because I believe they'll interrogate her inquisition style, which is a fate worse than death.
>> No. 1541 edit
Probably the luckblade is worth more than other things, so what if we wait until the we get our reward in Baldur and then we decide?
>> No. 1545 edit
>>1516
Fine, you can be party leader. I'll focus a bit more on my one trick.

>>1527
okay with this

>>1541
>George, controller
pfft
>> No. 1547 edit
Meant to ask, Rules Compendium where.
>> No. 1548 edit
Found and read the Dungeon Master Experience articles by Chris Perkins, some neat ideas in there I didn't really think of before.
>> No. 1550 edit
>referring to other players/members as tools
George is the biggest "tool" here.
>> No. 1551 edit
somebody tie up the fell orc
>> No. 1553 edit
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1553
>>1550

>in-character evil thoughts

For the sake of RP, completely necessary, ne.
>> No. 1555 edit
>>1549
How rude. I would prefer the less-derogatory term "pieces."
>> No. 1556 edit
>>1553
He's got a point. Take off your "everything George does is stupid and/or bad" goggles please.
>> No. 1559 edit
>>1553
>>1555
>>1556
I do admit I reacted to it the wrong way, but he could have used a less-derogatory term like Bern said.
>> No. 1561 edit
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1561
>>1559
I thought Myn always considered you all tools.
>> No. 1562 edit
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1562
>>1561

It's even in the character description~
>> No. 1563 edit
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1563
Oh, and please take this opportunity to get your character sheets ready for level 4.
>> No. 1567 edit
>>1563
I miiiiiight need help with that since I don't have the HotFK handbook out here.

And this isn't my laptop.
>> No. 1570 edit
>>1567
Hopefully I'll get a chance to walk you through that later.
>> No. 1571 edit
>>1570
Right now I just need a .zip file or a plain .pdf to view it, since I can't install WinRAR on this machine.
>> No. 1572 edit
Still unsure of my choice for this level, but here's some possibilities.

Switching out Free At-will for human for Heroic Effort. (Once per encounter free action to add a +4 bonus to missed attack or +4 to failed saving throw.)
This leaves me with Direct the Strike and Intuitive Strike. (Removing Viper's strike)
Ability score increase:+1 to Str and +1 to Cha.

Feat Choices (Here's the part I'm unsure about. The topmost ones are the main choices, the other half is optional stuff)

Toughness (+5 HP, increased by 5 per tier)
Saving Inspiration (Forgo extra dice healing for granted saving throw on inspiring Word heal. 1d6 would be gone if I decide to use it. 2d6 at level 6, etc)

Armor Proficiency:Scale (Might be too early.)
Heavy Blade Expertise (Might get it next level with our extra feat we get. Currently Master at Arms doesn't have much use for me and that's another choice with this or at the next level.)
Improved Defenses (+1 per tier to fort/will/reflexes)
Superior Will (Bonus to will, additional saving throw at the start of the turn if affected by daze/stun, even if condition is not save ends)

Super Optional tier
Directing Inspiration(Target of Inspiring word gains +1 to attack or defense for ranged/area attacks. Slightly good if we were ranged heavy, but with the recent loss of Lili, very not likely. Most of us are melee and have melee type stuff anyway.)

S
>> No. 1573 edit
>>1572
You're trained in Endurance, so why take Toughness? Swift Recovery is better for survivability overall.
>> No. 1574 edit
>>1573
I'm just going off the list recommended by that warlord thing. The one you mention isn't even listed on there, really. My HP is already sort of low as is.

Also, I think my character sheet is nearly updated on mythweavers, minus the feat choice.
>> No. 1575 edit
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1575
>>1571
http://www.mediafire.com/?t6s6bh95ahxw55t
Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms. Though don't forget that the summon celestial steed doesn't appear there. I'm not sure if you decided on your stats yet, but my inclination is to largely go as you currently are, with maybe a 13 in Con (11 in Wis). I abandoned my original plan to favor Str over Cha and now would instead stick to a more balanced approach, particularly if you're sticking with a shield.

>>1572
>>1573
>>1574
To be honest, Toughness vs. Swift Recovery is kind of a wash. The handbook may not list Swift Recovery yet simply because that part hasn't been updated, but generally Swift Recovery is probably better if you're trained in Endurance anyway (the main downside to Swift Recovery vs. Toughness is that you must train Endurance to get Swift Recovery).

Swift Recovery adds +3 to your healing surge value (+4 in paragon, +5 in epic), which generally will give you more mileage than 5 extra HP, but there are situations where the extra HP is better. (As a summoner, I would always take Toughness before Swift Recovery, for example). You can probably put off Scale Armor Proficiency a while longer, and Saving Inspiration might be able to wait until you have at least 2d6 extra healing on your inspiring word. It's your call, though. I wouldn't blame you for taking any of them, really, they all have their concrete benefits.
>> No. 1576 edit
>>1575
Finished revising. Please look it over and tell me if I got everything.

May make character description changes at a later date.
>> No. 1577 edit
>>1576
The swift recovery feat requires endurance (if you have something worked out with Rin, ignore this)

Otherwise I don't see any problems, though where do the Celestial Steed stats come at?
>> No. 1578 edit
>>1577
wait, I found it in the character builder, though I can't seem to link that and stuff either.
>> No. 1579 edit
>>1577
Whoops, fixed that now.
>> No. 1582 edit
Rin, I have already updated my character sheet, please check if there's something wrong.
>> No. 1583 edit
>>1582
Don't feel too bad. Two-weapon fighting opens up a nice feat line, at least.
>> No. 1585 edit
>>1583
I don't feel bad at all.
>> No. 1587 edit
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1587
Sheets are looking good, but don't forget to update your XP count too. Expected count is 3900 unless I miscounted.
>> No. 1593 edit
New thread
>>1591
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