[Burichan]  [Futaba]  [Nitronet]  [nitroib4f]  -  [WT]  [Home] [Manage]
Nostalgia and streams general. And general general general.

Board Guidelines


Create a New Thread
File 138080505994.jpg - (387.75KB , 667x1000 , url.jpg )
73780 No. 73780 edit hide watch quickreply [Reply]
Hi, thanks for the replies to my previous thread regarding the transporter story, the debate on Skype was pretty entertaining as well.

As my philosophy exam is in a few weeks, I am reviewing all of the stuff from my lectures. I figured I would pose some questions as well, since various perspectives are always welcome.

Darwinian theory aka Evolution theory has brought forth a phrase commonly since in various forms of media today.

Nature: Survival of the fittest
- A system of utilizing one's advantages

The strong takes advantage of the weak
The smart takes advantage of the stupid

I believe this is rather self-explanatory so there's no need for me to interpret this.


Message too long. Click here to view the full text.
>> No. 73781 edit
File 135765678036.jpg - (136.46KB , 781x574 , 1355778529255.jpg )
73781
Reduction of natural advantages through adherence to moral obligations is compensated by acceptance into societies. The advantages of an aid network comprised of an extremely large number of people outweigh the costs of not taking advantage of superior amoral opportunities. Overall, people who are part of a society have an advantage over people who aren't. Moreover, people who take amoral actions in the presence of a society face costly feedback from that society that often outweigh the advantages in the first place.

In short, a murderer who killed someone for their wallet is less likely to survive than somebody who spends their own money to bake cookies for everyone in the neighborhood.


File 137975748734.jpg - (267.34KB , 1600x900 , M.jpg )
73726 No. 73726 edit hide watch expand quickreply [Reply]
Take note that I did not come up with this story:

Note that when I use "E", I am referring to the protagonist in this short story.



The year is irrelevant in this story. E has always been commuting to work on the planet Uranus on a daily basis from the planet Earth. This mode of transportation is achieved by entering a machine known as the 'Transporter'. In layman terms, this machine destroys E's brain and body on earth and records the exact states before sending that information to Uranus.

Upon arrival on Uranus, a body and brain will be replicated using the transmitted information out of new matter, nevertheless this new body still retains the same properties that E's previous body had. In terms of perspective, E will only experience falling into a deep sleep on Earth before waking up on Uranus when the body is recreated.

E proceeds to travel back and forth using this Transporter as if it was merely a car. However, one day E enters the large Transporter machine as usual, lies down on the provided bed and hits the button to initiate the transportation.

One second passes, two seconds pass, three seconds pass, and nothing happens. An assistant tasked with maintaining the Transporter’s functions assures E that everything is fine. The machine has been upgraded thanks to new technology, which allows E’s structure information to be transmitted to Uranus and reproduced without destroying E’s body on Earth.

However a few moments later, the Transporter inventor J.M. enters the machine and pulls E out into his office. With a grave expression on his face, J.M. apologizes before delivering a piece of news to E.
Message too long. Click here to view the full text.
11 posts and 8 images omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No. 73743 edit
This is ultimately a fancier variant of the Ship of Theseus problem, which is only a problem inasmuch as it leads us to question the very nature of authenticity. A human body isn't comparable to the Ship of Theseus though; there is a very high chance that most or all of your cells are different than they were when you were born. Having all of your cells replaced with a bunch of new ones instantaneously shouldn't matter. There is nothing inherently "you" about the cells that comprise you, just their composition.

But I think the real question people are struggling with in this sort of example is one of consciousness and self. But we have to ask: What are "you?" Are you really anything more than a perception of continuous consciousness? Are you the same person you were 5 years ago? 10 years ago? Do you have the same desires and thoughts? Is the experience useless to you if it's nothing more than an implanted memory that never happened? How can you be sure your memories aren't? What if you got a traumatic head injury like Phineas Gage, whom friends said acted like a different man afterward?

My argument here would be that E-Prime and E-Uranus are different people, but both are E and indeed both were the same E up until the moment both regained (or gained) consciousness. Same memories, same pattern, same existence up to that point so far as their consciousness is concerned. After that point, there are now two people, one of whom is on Earth and has a fatal condition and another who is on Uranus and does not. Giving it any more thought than that necessitates involving unprovable entities. We can demonstrably prove there are two Es, but they diverge in consciousness thereafter and become distinct individuals. Experience of consciousness determines sense of self. You are "yourself" only inasmuch as you appear to think you are.

The only reason this is weird to you is because it sounds weird when you make a brain teaser out of it, in much the same way being afraid of a teleporter sounds weird to someone who isn't used to it. Yes, it kills you and reconstitutes you physically in another location. What of it? You don't notice;
Message too long. Click here to view the full text.
>> No. 73744 edit
>>73743

This has nothing to do with the ship of theseus problem since the materials of the two people have nothing to do with each other, only the information about the structure. You do notice being killed but you don't notice being reconstituted because that copy is a distinct instance of yourself and your consciousness doesn't magically transfer to it. Even if sleep turned out to be the same it'd just mean that death in general is extremely commonplace, not that it's not something to worry about.
>> No. 73745 edit
>>73738
It's not a hypothetical variant of death, it's just regular death but a clone pops out afterwards.
>and this particular case has literally none of the negatives that normal death has.
You missed the somewhat important part where this only applies to everyone except the guy who just exploded in the teleporter. From your perspective, you've just committed suicide. Congratulations, you are dead. Very much and truly so.
It's only to everyone besides yourself that someone who looks and acts exactly like you continues to exist.

If you ask me, I wouldn't ever use the teleporter in the first place. I don't really feel like killing myself every time I want to get from point A to B, no matter how convenient it may be in video games where you just revive at the church or in front of the king whenever you die.
On the other hand, if other people wanted to use it, I'd say "go right ahead, makes no difference to me". It'd be a ridiculously useful mode of transport for objects or even people, so I say go ahead and build thousands of the things; just don't ever put me anywhere near one of them.

Not to mention the completion of such a machine would first require the technology for flawlessly perfect and instantaneous cloning, which if you ask me would be a much more impressive and scientifically beneficial thing than simply being able to move from one place to another very quickly.
>> No. 73746 edit
>>73744
It's similar to the objection being made that the other being isn't you, in the same sense a fully-replaced ship is no longer the same ship. Except it is, because there's continuity. For a vessel it's the continuity of identification; for an individual it's the appearance of continuity of consciousness, which is philosophically no different from actual continuity of consciousness.

>>73745
There is no "from your perspective" of the dead original, because they're dead and their perspective ceases at the exact moment the new perspective resumes. The only way perspective can continue is in the case of the copying variant, which simply produces two "yous" that diverge immediately into two distinct individuals who share the same history.

In the case of the transportation instead of duplication, "you" continue to exist without noticing any difference. The appearance of continuity is impossible to notice, only to rationalize intellectually. It is true that the individual biological construct that is your original goes in and dies, but that doesn't matter. "You" are your consciousness. If you suffered irreversible amnesia, you wouldn't be "you" anymore; the loss of your consciousness is functionally equivalent to death. But if you woke up one day in a robot body, you'd probably argue that you were "still you," even though clearly something happened to your biological body. You can replace what constitutes you as long as your consciousness believes it remains the same.

After all, there's no way to know you weren't created by a duplication process this morning that destroyed the body that went to sleep in your best last night. There's no way to know the universe existed five minutes ago. "You" are perception and consciousness, and as long as a "you"
Message too long. Click here to view the full text.


File 137358478130.png - (171.55KB , 500x281 , tumblr_mpfrwm1JNE1r7m58jo8_500.png )
73346 No. 73346 edit hide watch expand quickreply [Reply] [First 100 posts] [Last 50 posts]
Ya'll know that DR just got an anime, right?
Episode two just came out, still RAW.
211 posts and 163 images omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No. 73588 edit
File 134199735242.png - (15.10KB , 429x413 , 1340645027620.png )
73588
>>73587
Hey that's pretty cool, that was coded in sublimetext. I knew you could add backgrounds, but that's a cool idea.
>> No. 73591 edit
File 137772021478.png - (305.29KB , 379x337 , tumblr_ms88appVFH1rsdrr3o1_400.png )
73591
>> No. 73592 edit
File 129607325775.jpg - (35.68KB , 186x131 , hiyo-oh.jpg )
73592

Last edited at 13/08/28(Wed)16:13:10
>> No. 73593 edit
File 137775319886.png - (116.84KB , 400x400 , seija.png )
73593
>>73591
waaat


File 137152704577.jpg - (305.35KB , 1440x810 , im dreaming of a wide christmas.jpg )
73109 No. 73109 edit hide watch expand quickreply [Reply] [First 100 posts] [Last 50 posts]
Because it's time for a new one, again~

(And you can never get enough sunshine!)
192 posts and 138 images omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No. 73344 edit
>>73337
I activated it with a proper product key received by purchasing Windows 7 64-bit which makes the not genuine labels disappear.
>> No. 73345 edit
File 129607325775.jpg - (35.68KB , 186x131 , hiyo-oh.jpg )
73345
>> No. 73347 edit
>>73346
I haven't seen the first episode, which sub should I download?
>> No. 73349 edit
File 129607325775.jpg - (35.68KB , 186x131 , hiyo-oh.jpg )
73349


File 136966215749.jpg - (350.11KB , 1920x1080 , wide feast.jpg )
72880 No. 72880 edit hide watch expand quickreply [Reply] [First 100 posts] [Last 50 posts]
Because it's time for a new one~!
200 posts and 124 images omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No. 73106 edit
>>73105
they did
it's called hikaru no go
>> No. 73107 edit
>>73105

2fan
>> No. 73108 edit
livestream.com/kinjosgoldenclinic
>> No. 73110 edit
File 13715270962.jpg - (351.94KB , 768x864 , Nori study.jpg )
73110
>>73109


Delete post []
Password  
Report post
Reason  
[0] [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] [38] [39] [40] [41] [42] [43] [44] [45] [46] [47] [48] [49] [50] [51] [52] [53] [54] [55] [56] [57] [58] [59] [60] [61] [62] [63] [64] [65] [66] [67] [68] [69] [70] [71] [72] [73] [74] [75]