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This is torture that will not end until you can believe in witches.

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263 No. 263 edit hide watch quickreply [Reply]
Hello, it is me gugmt again :)

First i would like to thank for all those quick replies you goats give me, i am very happy to have found this website

I would like to use this thread as a gathering of all the small details and "between the lines" and not obvious interpretations during the story you`ve managed to learn, it can be anything like numbers and names interpretations or even magic scenes interpretations, i`ll give some i remember for now




1) One I am very fond of comes from EP2, the second twilight.
HERE IS WHAT IS SHOWN:


Kanon follows the shocked Jessica to her room and tries to help her to calm down when she starts to have an asthma attack. He helps her and she says she wants to be alone, then comes a romantic scene in which he basically answers he will never let her alone and will be waiting outside in case she needs him. He waits outside of the room and Beatrice appears and start saying crap so he enters the room in order to save jessica.

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>> No. 267 edit
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Hello my dear seagull!

I was very happy to read this post. Explained many holes in the story for me, like about the episode of Kanon and Jessica in the second twilight.

About the names,*it's a good explanation and makes a lot of sense. I want to see the opinion of anyone else giving a different view of what you said.

Thank you for posting here, you were the first post I read on this website, and enlightened me so much ...

Thanks ;)

Last edited at 15/11/16(Mon)07:10:07
>> No. 268 edit
I agree with most of No. 4.
I would add the referenced developement of Sayo's self-discovery after Beato the elder showed up. I say Chick-Beato is a mix between Beatrice of Yasu and Cage Beatrice.


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264 No. 264 edit hide watch quickreply [Reply]
Hello, my first post here.
Here are some thoughts I made after I finished EP6 (I was aware of Shkannon, but I was more into Rosatrice at this time). After the manga finished more questions/thoughts arised.

1) Even if Erika was a corpse in the first 4 games, how it came that she was never "revived"?

2)I thought Erika was one of Sayo's personas. Why?
name: Beatrice (B)e(a)ri[c=k][e=a]; a nod to Beatrice?
appearance: flat chested girl; a nod to Sayo's true sex
Roses in the hair; like Beatrice
age: about Jessica's
introduction: by the servants, of course
interest: mystery; like Sayo+Battler
Love duel: she indirectly particapted in it and duelled
hates: denial (of her theories); in contrast to Beatrice

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>> No. 265 edit
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1). Not sure what you mean, she was created by Bern and was able to take part in the game thanks to confirmation that Kinzo was dead.
2). That would be denied by the fact they are seen together with Shannon and or Kanon at seperate times.
3). Erika was likely not an actual person in 1998, just a character to represent the witch hunters.
4). I don't remember the facts exactly, but I imagine that since she had no idea how her 'perfect' logic error was smashed caused her to focus more on that then anything else.
>> No. 266 edit
1) I know that Bern would/could place her on the game board. What I'm talking about is the "executed" tip in the 6th game. Did Bern needed a free place and a vessel to place "herself" on the gameboard? But by going with this argument nobody in the story argued that the man from 19 years ago who's an alternate version of Sayo.
IIRC pieces from alternate fragments weren't revived normally. So, that makes Erika (as a character) not originally created by Bern?

2) Well, I don't have the VN at hand now. Yeah the manga showed they were seen together. Mmh I have to search for pages where Erika see Kanon/Shannon. EP6 don't count if Erika hasn't the detective authority.
3) I know she represents witches of truth like how it is showed in the trick ending. But this is new to me. Interesting.
4) It fits to her. But in EP6 she liked to trick Battler by not telling him her moves. At the end losing the duel is what the story demanded.


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260 No. 260 edit hide watch quickreply [Reply]
Hello, i have been thinking for a while and I cant make a complete theory about this, please help me goats!

I am a true shkanontrice believer and I like the idea of the Metaworld(at least the first 6 episodes) being somehow a battle of wits between tohya+ikuko VS yasu´s letters, Tohya trying to figure out what happened in rokkenjima and stuff.

But firstly, Is there any hint given by the novel that the metaworld actually means that? I cant find it at all.

And do any of you goats know a theory that interprets all the meta skillfully from this point of view?

For me, Metabattler finding the truth about yasu at he end of episode 5 represents tohya finding the truth himself, But how has he been writing the episodes 3+4+5+6 all having the yasu solution even though he didnt know the truth back then? am I interpreting something wrong?

Also, what does it mean by Beatrice dying and reviving? does that have a deeper meaning regarding tohya finding the truth or is it just for the sake of he twin beatrices explanation??

I really want to see a solid interpretation of the metaworld, please help me!

Last edited at 15/11/03(Tue)22:38:20
>> No. 261 edit
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http://seacats.net/theories/res/230.html

Yeah it was Ikuko who wrote the first few. Although some points I wrote in the link above are silly, the general message there is still solid.

Basically, Ikuko writes 3-5 to show they know the truth/aid Tohya, Tohya writes 6 to make a happy ending which theorists try to rip apart, then the rest is about how the public and Ange come to a conclusion about the incident. The stuff in Ep6 basically is a preview of the solution Ange reaches in Ep8, and is more of a show that Battler put on with people reviving and such.

Last edited at 15/11/03(Tue)23:34:52


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259 No. 259 edit hide watch quickreply [Reply]
Yeah. Unless, huh?


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198 No. 198 edit hide watch expand quickreply [Reply]
Hello, I'm new here and such, I guess(been stalking the site for a long time), yet never felt the need to post until now, due to having a theory and a few questions to ask. So, can anyone here answer why everyone seems so quick to think Yasu was Shannon/Kanon?

Or why everyone(almost everyone) saw our confession as the truth, when it would really seem more like a way of looking at everything in a mystery point of view?

I've been thinking for awhile now, that just because Kanon and Shannon couldn't be in the same room in episode 7, that doesn't mean that they're one and the same, if so then, how were they able to appear in front of Erika(who was the detective in episode 5?

That's kinda a contradiction, isn't it?

I hear a lot of people attacking this point by saying that was due to different Game Masters and such, yet wasn't it made clear in tips like Game Master Battler and other parts of the story that being a Game Master doesn't mean you can do whatever you want, due so many rules being in place.

I feel like half of the fanbase stop thinking once they saw episode 7, irony that's quite funny seeing how Ryukishi tried to avoid this all together with the Chiru arc, especially ep 7 with Yasu.
By the way, it wasn't just I, who happened to feel like s/he noticed from certain characters(mostly Bern and I think Battler at one point)hint at the writer might even lie outside of his work about stuff, was I?

I think something was said around the end of episode 7 from Bern and Battler in episode 8 I'll post screenshots of it later on.

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>> No. 216 edit
>>198

I am not going to bother citing articles, interviews, the manga or what have you, as I am essentially a French Formalist: What you see is what you get. Instead, I will try my hardest to give you an adequate explanation of what happened.

You are correct, in a sense. People did stop thinking, and the interpretation that it is because of some insanity regarding different Game Masters in the meta-world is nonsensical, however, it is still very likely that Yasu is the culprit because of what is said of the culprit and her means in Our Confession. If you view that Our Confession is as much a part of Umineko as Game 1 or 8, as I do, a view which I will now explain, things should become more clear.

Here's an assumption for you: Umineko is a deconstruction of the mystery genre. More specifically, it is a deconstruction of the Golden Age of Mystery, which features ideas such as the detective proclaiming "A-ha! I have solved the mystery." Reader beware, you're in for a spoiler if you turn that page... and this is a feature of the mystery genre which is mentioned several times throughout Umineko. While we are left without a traditional "answer" in the main bulk of the game, Our Confession provides us an answer that works in every single game board: Yasu is the culprit, and she has the resources to hire accomplices.

I now pose you the following idea: What if Ryukishi decided that while the answer is best left unread (a warning given at the start of Our Confession,) given as this is a mystery, and not a fantasy, he was obligated to provide an answer anyway? Would he not take all possible precautions to separate this answer from the rest of the games? You have to go looking for Our Confession, it isn't just there for you to read, within the bookbinding of the rest of the game. In that sense, Umineko even deconstructs this idea of turning the page and reading the "answer" to solve the culprit.

To cut to the chase, I think the fact that Our Confession is deliberately segregated from t
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>> No. 256 edit
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256
>I've been thinking for awhile now, that just because Kanon and Shannon couldn't be in the same room in episode 7, that doesn't mean that they're one and the same, if so then, how were they able to appear in front of Erika(who was the detective in episode 5?
>> No. 257 edit
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>> No. 258 edit
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