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This is torture that will not end until you can believe in witches.

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234 No. 234 edit hide watch expand quickreply [Reply]
I believe we can all agree the "shkannotrice" answer is Ryukshi's way of saying "Here you go now shut the fuck up and leave me alone you pieces of shit. -_-"

I mean while I feel that alot of people out right dispise KNM's answer of Rosatrice, I do feel it has some merit behind it all.

Rosa being the culprit also does answer the Who, the why, and the how. Taking into consideration that we observe only the games Beatrice herself has hosted, Rosa being the culprit fits into a lot of the red truths.

I also believe it is to some understanding that chapters 5~8 are meant for more character devving as an over arching story while supplying the reader with hints on how to answer the original tale of chapters 1~4.

also all that Rose symbolism...

I would like to challenge counter arguments on this theory only as a way to further seek the truth. Consider this as another passing witch wanting to stave off boredom for the dread it might actually kill her.
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>> No. 247 edit
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But they weren't? Battler and the cousins even ask to see the bodies and get denied. The only time Battler even gets close to checking a singular body is when George is found, at which point a body that looks like Shannon is there in the distance faced down(I think Battler even closes his eyes to mourn George). I mean the only kinda difficult mystery in regards to Yasu was Shannon's Ep2 death, in which Battler actually checked the body by lifting up and looking at her face. Of course in that case it was suicide, which explains why Ryukishi changed Ep3 from "Land" to "Banquet" to be easier by showing more Yasu backstory, since most people didn't expect suicide to be an option. The more you know.

Anyway, the detective never sees Shannon and Kanon together in any episode either(ofc there is that ep5 thing, but one the other /theories/ threads explains that). I mean if you want to know how Yasu works with every mystery just read through the game again, you don't need me to explain them. I did back when the ps3 patch came out and I was still surprised by the amount of things I found(the voices were nice touch too).

If that doesn't satisfy you there is this thread that a new member (at the time) decided to make to play the devil's advocate for the "Yasu is wrong" solution. I just posted random things jokingly in that thread, but the others seriously debated a lot of points you may be wondering about.

There are also a number of threads in /theories/, while most of those are on other topics they do touch upon this quite a bit.

Again, you can't deny Yasu. Literally everyone has tried (even the people who supported it the most), but you are free to try and make another solution along side of it(Like in Ep5 when to reach a stalemate Erika had to make a new theory to cancel Battler's). In any case I think that is all that needs to be said really.
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>> No. 248 edit
Jessica was right beside Kannon until the moment he passed away in EP1.

but I will check out this thread.

Last edited at 15/07/17(Fri)12:38:27
>> No. 251 edit
I see your point, you mean "why the shkanontrice solution is assumed as the ultimate solution while there are so many plausible answers which answer the who how and whydunnit and also fit the red just fine like KNM's Rosatrice?"

In my interpretation, that's the whole point of Umineko, Ryu always intended to create a mystery with no clearly definitive solution. So Umineko is wrote in a way which allows many "plausible solutions in regards to who how whydunnit and fits all the red"

You see, all the classic mysteries are wrote in a format which allows only one solution, it’s just a matter of puzzling all the alibies and the hints and possibilities and you will find only one possible culprit, that’s a classic mystery right? If in a classic mystery you are able to find an alternative solution, you may be ruining the legitimacy of the author's answer. In this sense, a Classic mystery really is a logic game which a super smart robot will be able to solve by simply puzzling the possibilities.

But Umineko is different, it cannot be solved as a Classic mystery because it simply allows many possibilities to exist and then we goats keep ripping the guts of Umineko and forging many solutions, in fact Ryu does have fun reading all the solutions the fans make up!

That's why Rosatrice, black battler and many other solutions exist and remain consistent with the Red, that is the essence of the whole catbox thing.

BUT! That does not mean there is no ultimate solution as it does exist! The factor that hints for this solution is the "without love it can’t be seen"
One can argue Rosatrice needs love to be seen, but unfortunately not as much as shkanontrice.

Shkanontrice is heavily implied throughout the whole series, once you learn about it, you read a completely different story, trust me, you really do.

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>> No. 252 edit
Not sure if copy pasta, but yeah. This is a decent write up.

Although for records sake, again the servant red isn't applied to Umineko, and I don't think its ever stated in red that there is 18 exactly, just that there is no more than 18. So the only logic is "15 persons + 1(Yasu) + 1(Erika) + = 17 persons". So basically the only argument is the "Yasu's identities shouldn't count as separate", which you explain pretty well is the point of the story.

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78 No. 78 edit hide watch expand quickreply [Reply] [Last 50 posts]
Setting aside for the moment the question of whether we need to know, whether it matters, etc., just who was responsible for all that stuff going down and/or blowing up anyhow?

Was Yasu a psycho killer burning down the house like that song by the Talking Heads, "And She Was?" Is she a hilariously effective scapegoat for some dickhead like George or Battler? Was it Kyrie randomly discarding all her characterization to go on a shooting spree for money she isn't able to prove actually exists? Did Maria finally show them, show them all? Comedy Ange Option?

Note that "fine Japanese munitions craftsmanship + Kinzo's gross negligence, stop building houses on top of bombs you dumbass" is an acceptable culprit proposal.
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>> No. 231 edit
The red truth was introduced from EP2 and onwards. Red isn't required to solve EP1, which is where Ange could be the culprit.
>> No. 232 edit
"The theory works if you ignore 90% of the story"
Pretty hard to buy.
Ep1 is generally pretty clear cut anyway considering all the faked deaths.

Lets lay down the problems.
>Ange has an alibi, which you seem to be disregarding for no reason.
>You only say to use EP1, yet you use parts of EP3 and other episodes for supporting evidence and conclusion making.
>You have yet to state a motive.

I know you like this theory aura but you're just cutting corners.
>> No. 233 edit
>> No. 250 edit

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230 No. 230 edit hide watch quickreply [Reply]
So I thought I'd just put this down here since I don't really see a full explanation else where, although I imagine someone else has already come up with it so call me a slowpoke or whatever. Naturally spoilers for whole series should be expected.


First and foremost what we know as the meta world, and what I'm talking about in particular is how the actually story unfolds as the reader first picks up Umineko. Mostly Battler vs Beatrice in the tearoom and all those scenes that follow afterwards.

When you think about some theories that are made by readers, you may recall a few radical ones that choose to ignore all of the red and meta world and only focus on the fragments, as they believe those are the only pieces that are real in the prime(world of 1998). But once you think like that, the logic would then become, aren't the EPs1-6 also just written by individuals and shouldn't also be taken seriously? At which point it becomes pointless for there is no longer anything to explain the game.

So while thinking this, concluded that the meta world surely has a place within the realms of Prime. We know that, well at the very least the events in Ep1-2 were written by Yasu. Then the next 3 were written by Ikuko (Ep6 was Touya I recall). While some argue they may be the same person, let's skip over that for now. What matters is that during the early episodes red truth is giving out with confidence that there is an answer to be solved, so Ikuko simply taking the role of the witch would work too.

So to get to the exact explanation, the events in the meta world seem to follow a pattern that can fit into the Prime world. We know later on that Battler gets amnesia and lives with Ikuko, so its a fair assumption that the meta world is just a dramatization of future events. To be more specific, Battler reading the games over and declaring that it can't be a witch and there must be a culprit to the fate which befell his family. Over the course of the next few games in the meta world Battler meets other characters who take the name of Beatrice, or at least is a witch spawned from the gameboard. Notably Ange and Eva, who both just
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211 No. 211 edit hide watch expand quickreply [Reply]
So in the very end, who was the person Battler loved all along?

Yasu, or Beatrice?
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>> No. 213 edit
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>> No. 214 edit
Which Battler?
>> No. 215 edit
Both, because I refuse to accept Ryukishi's argument that a person's body can't be held accountable for the actions of the mind inhabiting it. That's called the insanity defense.
Because Yasu loved everybody, I affectionately refer to Umineko as the Sayo Yasuda Dating Game.
>> No. 220 edit
>Battler doesn't give two shits about Sayo in the past.
>Beatrice is his ideal woman.
>Scenes in Chiru show him talking to Beatrice and he doesn't mention Shkannon or whatever at all.

I think Sayo pretty much had no choice but to 'become' Beatrice in order for Battler to love her, it was said in Episode 7. Battler actually never loved Sayo herself.

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218 No. 218 edit hide watch quickreply [Reply]
Hey guys, I'm new here, but I want to ask about something that's been bugging for quite some time since I finished the Umineko novels. In the end of the EP4 teaparty, when Beato is impaled, she used a magic when she lifted her arms up, and then only one of her arms fell. Afterwards, in the EP4 ???, even Lambdadelta states that the fact that only one of Beato's arms fell means that she still has one trick up her sleeve. I don't if I'm just too dumb and didn't notice when that was explained, but just what is that trick up Beato's sleeve? Why did she make that last magic? After I finished the novels, I felt like everyone just forgot about that detail. Could someone explain that to me?
>> No. 219 edit
Hmm, well I haven't read that part in a long time, but if I had to make a guess it sounds like it would be Shkanon in general. While most(if not all) of Battler's answers to the howdunits are said to be false, she naturally doesn't want to admit the whole Yasu plot so easily, for it is her heart, and thus Lambda calls it a "trick up her sleeve".

Last edited at 14/11/20(Thu)23:25:04

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