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This is torture that will not end until you can believe in witches.

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78 No. 78 edit hide watch expand quickreply [Reply] [Last 50 posts]
Setting aside for the moment the question of whether we need to know, whether it matters, etc., just who was responsible for all that stuff going down and/or blowing up anyhow?

Was Yasu a psycho killer burning down the house like that song by the Talking Heads, "And She Was?" Is she a hilariously effective scapegoat for some dickhead like George or Battler? Was it Kyrie randomly discarding all her characterization to go on a shooting spree for money she isn't able to prove actually exists? Did Maria finally show them, show them all? Comedy Ange Option?

Note that "fine Japanese munitions craftsmanship + Kinzo's gross negligence, stop building houses on top of bombs you dumbass" is an acceptable culprit proposal.
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>> No. 231 edit
>>229
The red truth was introduced from EP2 and onwards. Red isn't required to solve EP1, which is where Ange could be the culprit.
>> No. 232 edit
>>231
"The theory works if you ignore 90% of the story"
Pretty hard to buy.
Ep1 is generally pretty clear cut anyway considering all the faked deaths.

Lets lay down the problems.
>Ange has an alibi, which you seem to be disregarding for no reason.
>You only say to use EP1, yet you use parts of EP3 and other episodes for supporting evidence and conclusion making.
>You have yet to state a motive.

I know you like this theory aura but you're just cutting corners.
>> No. 233 edit
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>> No. 250 edit
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230 No. 230 edit hide watch quickreply [Reply]
So I thought I'd just put this down here since I don't really see a full explanation else where, although I imagine someone else has already come up with it so call me a slowpoke or whatever. Naturally spoilers for whole series should be expected.

-

First and foremost what we know as the meta world, and what I'm talking about in particular is how the actually story unfolds as the reader first picks up Umineko. Mostly Battler vs Beatrice in the tearoom and all those scenes that follow afterwards.

When you think about some theories that are made by readers, you may recall a few radical ones that choose to ignore all of the red and meta world and only focus on the fragments, as they believe those are the only pieces that are real in the prime(world of 1998). But once you think like that, the logic would then become, aren't the EPs1-6 also just written by individuals and shouldn't also be taken seriously? At which point it becomes pointless for there is no longer anything to explain the game.

So while thinking this, concluded that the meta world surely has a place within the realms of Prime. We know that, well at the very least the events in Ep1-2 were written by Yasu. Then the next 3 were written by Ikuko (Ep6 was Touya I recall). While some argue they may be the same person, let's skip over that for now. What matters is that during the early episodes red truth is giving out with confidence that there is an answer to be solved, so Ikuko simply taking the role of the witch would work too.

So to get to the exact explanation, the events in the meta world seem to follow a pattern that can fit into the Prime world. We know later on that Battler gets amnesia and lives with Ikuko, so its a fair assumption that the meta world is just a dramatization of future events. To be more specific, Battler reading the games over and declaring that it can't be a witch and there must be a culprit to the fate which befell his family. Over the course of the next few games in the meta world Battler meets other characters who take the name of Beatrice, or at least is a witch spawned from the gameboard. Notably Ange and Eva, who both just
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211 No. 211 edit hide watch expand quickreply [Reply]
So in the very end, who was the person Battler loved all along?

Yasu, or Beatrice?
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>> No. 213 edit
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213
>> No. 214 edit
>>211
Which Battler?
>> No. 215 edit
Both, because I refuse to accept Ryukishi's argument that a person's body can't be held accountable for the actions of the mind inhabiting it. That's called the insanity defense.
Because Yasu loved everybody, I affectionately refer to Umineko as the Sayo Yasuda Dating Game.
>> No. 220 edit
>Battler doesn't give two shits about Sayo in the past.
>Beatrice is his ideal woman.
>Scenes in Chiru show him talking to Beatrice and he doesn't mention Shkannon or whatever at all.

I think Sayo pretty much had no choice but to 'become' Beatrice in order for Battler to love her, it was said in Episode 7. Battler actually never loved Sayo herself.


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218 No. 218 edit hide watch quickreply [Reply]
Hey guys, I'm new here, but I want to ask about something that's been bugging for quite some time since I finished the Umineko novels. In the end of the EP4 teaparty, when Beato is impaled, she used a magic when she lifted her arms up, and then only one of her arms fell. Afterwards, in the EP4 ???, even Lambdadelta states that the fact that only one of Beato's arms fell means that she still has one trick up her sleeve. I don't if I'm just too dumb and didn't notice when that was explained, but just what is that trick up Beato's sleeve? Why did she make that last magic? After I finished the novels, I felt like everyone just forgot about that detail. Could someone explain that to me?
>> No. 219 edit
>>218
Hmm, well I haven't read that part in a long time, but if I had to make a guess it sounds like it would be Shkanon in general. While most(if not all) of Battler's answers to the howdunits are said to be false, she naturally doesn't want to admit the whole Yasu plot so easily, for it is her heart, and thus Lambda calls it a "trick up her sleeve".

Last edited at 14/11/20(Thu)23:25:04


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154 No. 154 edit hide watch expand quickreply [Reply]
So can someone explain to me Hideyoshi's murder behind the closed door with a chain in Episode 5?

It's barely even touched on in the VN, heck, it's not even mentioned in slightest at the Court of Illusions. This second twilight has really been bugging me for quite some time.

In fact, while we're on the topic, who is the culprit of the 5th game? It can't be Shkannon (or can it?), so what the fuck went down there?
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>> No. 164 edit
>>162
>by pure logic.
We all know where applying pure logic to the red gets you.

If that proves Shannon is the one on the phone, then Shannon can't be Kanon.
>> No. 165 edit
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165
Hideyoshi's death seems pretty obviously faked from ep5 alone:

1) He fiddles with the lock initially, expecting it to be locked from the start, and accidentally locks it first. He seems unconcerned at this point about much of anything, even casual.

2) He puts the chain on the door after locking it, then closes the window shutters for no clear reason.

3) He flops noisily on the bed and starts noticeably sobbing about George, after seeming entirely undisturbed by his "death" before that point.

4) He suddenly "notices" a person in the room (where did they come from?) and asks "Who are you?" There shouldn't really be anyone on the island he doesn't know at this point other than possibly "Beatrice."

5) Hideyoshi gets into an audible struggle with the "culprit" at the same time someone is trying to get inside the room from outside.

6) THE CULPRIT DOES NOT LEAVE. Eva has run off to get help, so there shouldn't be anyone directly outside, and the window shutters could be opened if the "culprit" wanted to depart through a window.

7) Nobody else is found anywhere in the room and they deliberately overlook Natsuhi's hiding place for no apparent reason.
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>> No. 190 edit
>>164
Not really.

Let's say we have a character with the name Jake Andrews. I tell Jake I like pie. I could say I told Jake I like pie and I told Andrews I like pie and both are true.
>> No. 195 edit
The culprit was hidden under the bed. Killed Hideyoshi.

The room was never investigaded by the detective, so the culprit could just hide inside.

Also, with "the Fall". The culprit did hide 4 cards in the room. After Natshuhi told her favorite season, he just said the location of the Fall card.

Last edited at 13/11/29(Fri)12:41:23


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