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154 No. 154 edit
So can someone explain to me Hideyoshi's murder behind the closed door with a chain in Episode 5?

It's barely even touched on in the VN, heck, it's not even mentioned in slightest at the Court of Illusions. This second twilight has really been bugging me for quite some time.

In fact, while we're on the topic, who is the culprit of the 5th game? It can't be Shkannon (or can it?), so what the fuck went down there?
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>> No. 156 edit
Was there really a culprit in EP5? I think Battler's theory was than they were all faking their dead. They could die from the explosion, though.
>> No. 157 edit
>>156

Why would they fake their deaths? And what about the man from 19 years ago and the whole thing with Natsuhi? There had to be a mastermind to set all of it in motion, but the question is, who?
>> No. 158 edit
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158
>>157
The most common theory is that it's all a conspiracy to corner Natsuhi into admitting Kinzo's death. The only thing that bothers me is the part with Krauss, who is said to have died shortly after receiving the phone call. If it weren't for that, there really wouldn't be any reason to assume anyone died at all in that episode until the bomb went off. I've never seen a satisfactory explanation of that part, unfortunately.

Incidentally, I believe there's a part in the EP8 manga that confirms Hideyoshi's death in this episode was faked...Not seen it myself, though.
>> No. 159 edit
>>158
If anything, "our confession" talks a little more about the possibility of fake murders. And EP6 too of course.
>> No. 160 edit
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160
>>159
Okay, found the relevant part.

It starts around here:
http://www.mangareader.net/umineko-no-naku-koro-ni-chiru-episode-8-twilight-of-the-golden-witch/6/42

Basically, instead of the riddle game, the family play hide and seek. Natsuhi and Beatrice end up hiding in a closet. Then Eva and Ange enter the room, and she makes it sound like she's about to murder Ange. Natsuhi bursts out of the closet and then everyone laughs at her for falling for the act.

The most telling part is that Beatrice thinks "Wait a minute, something like this happened before" on page 43. I can only assume that this scene was added to clarify Hideyoshi's murder in EP5, since the situation is so similar.

Also, looking through that chapter...

http://www.mangareader.net/umineko-no-naku-koro-ni-chiru-episode-8-twilight-of-the-golden-witch/6/32

This part is also interesting since Beatrice basically admits that she's the one who gave Natsuhi the phone call in EP5. So it would seem that Yasu is indeed also the mastermind in the fifth arc.
>> No. 161 edit
>>160
The manga huh, I never read it all. I wonder why there are those strange differences with the novel in it.
>> No. 162 edit
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162
>>160
Oh wow, they changed that much in the manga? After reading it, it looks like hide and seek is a better way to move the plot forward than the quizzes. At least from a writing perspective.

Anyway, one thing I should add about EP5. There was a very neat logic trick (I don't remember who first theorized it) that made it clear Shannon was the one who talked to Natsuhi over the phone. Natsuhi used the red "I never told anyone except Shannon that I like Fall." And in fact she had told the person over the phone that she liked Fall. Thus the person was Shannon, proven by pure logic.
>> No. 163 edit
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163
I don't think Ep 5 had a rock solid culprit, but if I recall.
Natsushi was EP1.
Rosa was EP2
Eva was EP3.
Krauss is EP4.
Rudolf should be Episode 5.
Hide is EP6
Kyrie is EP7


I know Rudolf was the trickster who trolled Nat all the time so try and figure it out from his perspective and it should become rather easy.
>> No. 164 edit
>>162
>by pure logic.
We all know where applying pure logic to the red gets you.

If that proves Shannon is the one on the phone, then Shannon can't be Kanon.
>> No. 165 edit
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165
Hideyoshi's death seems pretty obviously faked from ep5 alone:

1) He fiddles with the lock initially, expecting it to be locked from the start, and accidentally locks it first. He seems unconcerned at this point about much of anything, even casual.

2) He puts the chain on the door after locking it, then closes the window shutters for no clear reason.

3) He flops noisily on the bed and starts noticeably sobbing about George, after seeming entirely undisturbed by his "death" before that point.

4) He suddenly "notices" a person in the room (where did they come from?) and asks "Who are you?" There shouldn't really be anyone on the island he doesn't know at this point other than possibly "Beatrice."

5) Hideyoshi gets into an audible struggle with the "culprit" at the same time someone is trying to get inside the room from outside.

6) THE CULPRIT DOES NOT LEAVE. Eva has run off to get help, so there shouldn't be anyone directly outside, and the window shutters could be opened if the "culprit" wanted to depart through a window.

7) Nobody else is found anywhere in the room and they deliberately overlook Natsuhi's hiding place for no apparent reason.

8) Hideyoshi's "corpse" is wrapped up in a sheet and moved. Why?

Shit's fake, dogg.
>> No. 190 edit
>>164
Not really.

Let's say we have a character with the name Jake Andrews. I tell Jake I like pie. I could say I told Jake I like pie and I told Andrews I like pie and both are true.
>> No. 195 edit
The culprit was hidden under the bed. Killed Hideyoshi.

The room was never investigaded by the detective, so the culprit could just hide inside.

Also, with "the Fall". The culprit did hide 4 cards in the room. After Natshuhi told her favorite season, he just said the location of the Fall card.

Last edited at 13/11/29(Fri)12:41:23
>> No. 296 edit
>>190
You did not tell Jake Andrews you like pie


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