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File 132428793833.jpg - (341.88KB , 1250x1000 , beato.jpg )
30539 No. 30539 edit
Sleep peacefully, my best beloved witch, Beatrice.
Expand all images
>> No. 30542 edit
I think "Tea Party at the End" sounds better. And a longer post to accompany it.

But, what the hell. It's not like there won't be another tea party commemorating the end of Umineko.
>> No. 30543 edit
I didn't feel like writing out something fancy about how much I love Beato or will miss the franchise. Not many people would really read it anyway.

Keep it simple.
>> No. 30544 edit
What a shame. It'd be a nice way to commemorate all of these years.
>> No. 30546 edit
Just enjoy the tea party. The 5 people who have actually read Umineko will enjoy it themselves, while the rest of the community will continue as though nothing happened.
>> No. 30547 edit
File 132428853745.jpg - (576.87KB , 800x900 , 1246795869318.jpg )
>I didn't feel like writing out something fancy about how much I love Beato
>> No. 30548 edit
You sound a little spiteful. Do you regret how things ended here?
>> No. 30549 edit
Hey, I may not have read it (it's apparently, what, longer than war & peace?), but I watched the anime.
>> No. 30550 edit
File 132428871430.jpg - (43.63KB , 300x344 , 924.jpg )
>> No. 30551 edit
I'll still appear to defend her whenever her name is slandered. Beato and Yasu and everyone else.

Things have not ended here, have they?

How offensive.
>> No. 30552 edit
No, but maybe they should, seeing as the original purpose has ended. I thought that was what you were upset about.
>> No. 30553 edit
I don't mean that offensively, I'm pretty sure I just saw it pointed out somewhere that it's longer. Maybe even longer that the bible (unsure on that though).
>> No. 30554 edit
File 13242888933.png - (141.00KB , 291x558 , S20_AZUMI_0_00A_05_00_L.png )
I only read like Chapters 1, 2 & 5 and whatever people streamed of it, myself. So about half of it overall, mostly just all the "good" parts of it I guess. Like the parts with Amakusa and such.
>> No. 30555 edit
Isn't it a wonderful thing that a community grew up around the work that wants to stick together after it's over?
>> No. 30556 edit
Only if no one has any lasting regrets. Happiness that excludes even one person isn't true happiness.
>> No. 30557 edit
File 132428915080.png - (137.77KB , 291x558 , S20_AZUMI_0_00A_05_01_L.png )
78864 lines overall according to TLWiki, so a bit longer than Tsukihime. Considering it's a Kinetic Novel with few-to-no branching choices, that's pretty damn long.
>> No. 30558 edit
What if there exists one person who is only happy on the condition that everyone else is not?
>> No. 30559 edit
I don't think that holds much relevance here.

In any case, that's more than enough. I only wanted to post the thread.

Have a nice dream. See you in Hell.
>> No. 30560 edit
Did that person reach this state through a community in which everyone is upset but him? In that case the community failed to reach an adequate state of happiness, as it only pleased one guy with an insane condition for his greed.
>> No. 30561 edit
Geeze, you could have at least left with some degree eloquence. Kids these days.
>> No. 30562 edit
But if that person exists, then by your logic, true happiness cannot exist.
>> No. 30563 edit
Well, see, I was trying to tie true happiness to this community and the medium in which it was built around. I didn't mean it as a general rule of reality.

My answer to that is to kill or change the person. One person stands in the way of everyone's happiness? Get rid of him. Then everyone is happy, yay.
>> No. 30564 edit
>> No. 30565 edit
File 13242896545.png - (199.49KB , 387x397 , Beatoinseriousneckpain.png )
What if people were unhappy that it had to be resolved that way? It does seem like a demonic way of achieving happiness.
>> No. 30566 edit
File 129773718627.png - (84.98KB , 291x478 , ka2_fumana66.png )
Oh darn, I missed the old fashioned discussion again.
>> No. 30567 edit
I recognized it. You still could do much better, but I guess you deserve points for using an Umineko quote.

Kill him in secret. Duh. If no one knows, no one cares.
>> No. 30568 edit
What if, despite the nature of the first theoretical person, there existed a second person who would not be happy if the first disappeared, whether they knew the reason or not?
>> No. 30569 edit
File 132429005792.jpg - (74.57KB , 600x508 , 1323317400694.jpg )
You know that the answer to this ends in blood. A lot of blood. Theoretically that many people shouldn't exist, I guess. Eventually you'd be able to secretly get rid of all the dissenters in quiet, if you had enough power.

You'd almost be like a witch. An evil, Sayaka witch who only wanted to make everyone happy. So tragic.
>> No. 30570 edit
So can true happiness only exist with witches?
>> No. 30571 edit
Yup. Or magi, if they'd ever freaking wish for the right thing.
>> No. 30572 edit
>old fashioned discussion
>look at dis character poll ponytails turn me on hurp let's kill oxen for zeus
new mystery: which part was the old fashioned discussion
>> No. 30573 edit
File 131078361375.png - (1.12MB , 818x1080 , WhatisthisIdon\'tevenknow.png )
This is what happens when you let Belphe in here:
The weirdos come out.
>> No. 30574 edit
If the weirdos flock to Belphie doesn't it make sense that Belphie is a weirdo?
>> No. 30575 edit
I didn't even start that!

It's not like I asked for these powers.
>> No. 30576 edit
File 129626327419.png - (84.95KB , 291x478 , kan_fumana3.png )
The part in which the golden witch was posting around, of course.
>> No. 30577 edit
File 129722763721.png - (412.21KB , 710x577 , 凛私服05c(近).png )
More like good riddance.
>> No. 30578 edit
No, probably not. I fail to see the correlation.

T-That's like blasphemy! >>30551 is going to be very disappointed.
>> No. 30579 edit
File 129941217595.png - (206.12KB , 393x473 , イリヤ02b(近).png )
Oh my~
Such harsh words~

At least tell us why you think that, my dearest~
>> No. 30580 edit
File 132429154142.jpg - (178.09KB , 873x656 , 3079193.jpg )
>it's not female, it's shit
>> No. 30581 edit
Your provocations are not unnoticed.

Beatrice is perfect. Do not insult her further, please.
>> No. 30582 edit
File 129671502260.png - (353.76KB , 545x583 , 凛私服04a眼鏡(近).png )
"Three people are actually one" is a very disappointing resolution. The Yasu parts of episode 7 were honestly a chore to read, and one of the reasons I argued so heavily against Shkannontrice back in the day was because I thought it was a dumb solution. Still do, I just couldn't really deny it anymore after episode 6.

I don't like how we were originally presented with the idea that this would be some kind of mystery story, but then it turned into a farce at the end. Probably the worst was the mystery violated the spirit of the Knox rules as presented, if not the literal meaning.

Hey, I can like male characters just fine. Not Yasu though, that's just terrible writing.
>> No. 30583 edit
File 129697429149.png - (319.28KB , 484x580 , 凛私服01d眼鏡(近).png )
Too late.
>> No. 30584 edit
File 131545070866.jpg - (50.86KB , 461x499 , 1314676869111.jpg )
Most likely because Yasu is such a pitiful character~
>> No. 30585 edit
File 132394767499.jpg - (41.77KB , 280x285 , 61.jpg )
I agree with Ange, for the record. These are all fair points that have been brought up before by /jp/.
>> No. 30586 edit
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>> No. 30587 edit
File 132429193765.png - (210.26KB , 441x669 , s020_1aa2ba_070_z.png )
I agree with everything Rin just said, actually.
>> No. 30588 edit
I don't think anybody was particularly pleased with the Yasu solution. However, Beato herself is an entirely different character. Yes, Beatrice is a part of Yasu, as are Shannon and Kanon. But they're different characters.

Unless you want to go full anti-fantasy, but since everybody seems to like the fantasy parts more anyway that seems a little silly.

Only people who have read it should be allowed to comment.
>> No. 30589 edit
File 132429207657.jpg - (47.81KB , 300x341 , 920.jpg )
Maybe if it ended differently I would have been inclined to finish. I agree with your assertion there that Beato is a separate character from Yasu. Fair point though, I'll shut up.
>> No. 30590 edit
This. I always debated against "ShKanontrice" guys (thank god that term isn't really used anymore) because the theory was beyond crazy and I couldn't believe what had so far been an intriguing mystery had that at its core.

Unfortunately for me, the author was just as crazy if not moreso than the theorists.
>> No. 30591 edit
File 129651591726.png - (319.07KB , 484x580 , 凛私服01a眼鏡(近).png )
>However, Beato herself is an entirely different character
Unfortunately, I don't accept this. Did you notice as we grew closer and closer to the conclusion, there was less and less of a "Beatrice" in the story? It's because as we found out the truth, we discovered there never really was a Beatrice. At least not in the sense presented at first.
>> No. 30592 edit
File 12959202433.png - (89.42KB , 291x478 , kan_waraia123.png )
Wait a second, when was set in stone that Beatrice is a male?
Well, the question arc episodes where the "mystery" episodes. If anything Ryukishi prepared us for something like this ages ago, there's the anti-mystery/anti-fantasy hint, for example. Furthermore I believe that ep8 explains in a way why the story ended like this.
>> No. 30593 edit
File 129592202371.png - (220.81KB , 473x483 , イリヤ06b(近).png )
Yeah, all different shapes and forms. Didn't help that she kept on dying too...~
>> No. 30594 edit
Isn't that more a side effect of the way Ryukishi chose to deliver the truth regarding her?

The last part doesn't strike me as particularly relevant either - Beatrice's mystery was always integral to the story, of course she didn't exist in the way she was first presented.

The theorists weren't crazy for reading between the lines. If anything, it's the people who didn't believe in Shkanontrice or some similar theory who were crazy by denying the obvious. THAT is delusional.
>> No. 30595 edit
File 132429248582.jpg - (175.02KB , 396x401 , 1257752381099.jpg )
>it's possibly not female it's shit just in case
>> No. 30596 edit
Those sound like the words of one of the theorists.
>> No. 30597 edit
File 129599725748.png - (85.34KB , 291x478 , kan_majimea37.png )
Oh well, I don't consider it delusional until ep6 got translated. Before that we had no real evidence because lol atlas.
>> No. 30598 edit
File 132144105157.png - (224.91KB , 305x463 , 8456789u7342.png )
>Beatrice's mystery

Can't agree with you there, chap. R07 violated every sense of the word mystery. It was more like a deeply buried truth at that point.
>> No. 30599 edit
File 130053699660.png - (265.08KB , 406x570 , 凛私服11f(近).png )
She doesn't exist in the way first presented because she's Yasu. Some girl(?) went crazy and invented a bunch of imaginary friends for her(?)self. It's not terribly good character design and it's not a good story either. The whole silly debacle started because of fantasies she put in the messages in the bottles.

Another thing that bugged me is the idea that all of the characters as presented are fake. We are given only a skewed viewpoint in their portrayal throughout the various arcs, and the truth of the matter is that none of those things might have happened. In that case, how do we know what these characters are really like? Umineko doesn't give an answer, and that annoys me a lot. Beatrice, of course, never existed and completely disappeared from the story in the answer arc because of all the characters, she's the least real.
>> No. 30600 edit
Well, considering it was right...

Mystery, the truth, whatever you please. Beato's heart was one of the key points of the story.
>> No. 30601 edit
File 132212713094.jpg - (71.56KB , 300x252 , 363.jpg )
>Beatrice, of course, never existed and completely disappeared from the story in the answer arc because of all the characters, she's the least real.

Poor Beato.
>> No. 30602 edit
File 129599669097.png - (84.80KB , 291x478 , kan_nayamua42.png )
The problem here is that most people wanted to get an orthodox mystery from Umineko, when the main theme of it was always deception, fantasy and well, trolling in general.
Thanks to the "mystery plot" from the first episodes we got to understood who beatrice was, and why did this massacre started. We don't get to see how exactly happened, Why? well consider Ryukishi a depressed emo if you wish, but he had a reason.
>> No. 30603 edit
The love people felt for Beato is the same love Battler felt when recovering his memory of her. When the truth was revealed and when his memory was restored, it was shown that she didn't exist to both. Battler probably felt the same depression in episode 6 that people feel now that they know the truth. So DEEP, man.
>> No. 30604 edit
File 130183140637.png - (222.03KB , 473x483 , イリヤ06a(近).png )
Not to mention that when an author insults his readers for not pursuing a truth which he shoves in their faces but refuses to confirm themselves is quite lazy and arrogant, in my opinion.

Rather, he went on a backwards way of doing it.
>> No. 30605 edit
Yes, and? She was always going to be somebody on the island once you ruled out mysterious person X. That she was Yasu and Yasu being somewhat disappointing has already been addressed.

Beato was a great character. She was a lot of fun. Yasu doesn't change that.
>> No. 30606 edit
That's not true, Beatrice arrives on a boat after people start dying.
>> No. 30607 edit
File 132144304162.png - (1.56MB , 1341x1079 , 7ea2357099457.png )
So you want me to sympathize with someone who was crazy and had murderous intent, all the while the author throwing every single "woo is me" background detail upon them?
Nah. I sympathize with Yasu as much as I sympathize with Erika's craziness.

We don't get to see anything because R07 wants people to "make up their own decisions" and then say "those decisions are wrong. It's the one I keep hinting at and you are dumb for not seeing it."
R07 might be emo or whatever, be he is an arrogant asshat, that's for sure...
>> No. 30608 edit
File 129773718627.png - (84.98KB , 291x478 , ka2_fumana66.png )
>insulting his readers for not pursuing a truth which he shoves in their faces but refuses to confirm themselves is quite lazy and arrogant, in my opinion.
First point, in my opinion most people overeacted with the "goats" stuff. In ep7 Ange tell Auau to never insult his readers (And with this we can sense that Auau doesn't represent Ryukishi feelings about his readers)
Second point: >Lazy and arrogant
Yes, I will accept the arrogant part, but it's definitelly not lazy. He's clearly anything but lazy. His intention was to avoid the lazy ending in which everything is revealed and everyone lives happy in the end. (Higurashi)
And when we exactly were told that beatrice was another person? Don't you remember the 19th person stuff? Even Virgilia say in ep that Beatrice is just the personification of the rules of the game.
>> No. 30609 edit
File 129660024462.png - (412.15KB , 710x577 , 凛私服05d(近).png )
>Yasu didn't change that
Well, it did for me. Since they're the same person, the amount of disappoint I have for Yasu (let's throw in how much I hate the character Lion in there for good measure) significantly outweighs whatever feelings of amusement I might have derived from Beato, and the severe lack of Beato in the second half of the story only served to make matters worse in that regard for me. Even if/when I read episode 8, I'll still know that the Beatrice presented to me in that is fake as well.

Maybe I'm just disappointed because I wanted Beatrice to be real. Not in the sense that she's a witch real, but that there actually was someone like that on the island. Someone fun, someone mysterious. Yasu/Shannon/Kanon does not count.

Well, yes, R07 was awful for doing that, though my dislike for R07 is separate from my dislike for Beato, at least. Though I suppose they are related since Beato is nothing more than a byproduct of his addled imagination.
>> No. 30610 edit
File 131818788985.png - (313.74KB , 484x580 , 凛私服01a洗脳(近).png )
You call an ending "lazy," I call it "satisfying."
>> No. 30611 edit
I'm not saying you have to sympathize with Yasu.

But I don't like people pretending Beato is ruined because she is also Yasu. That's wrong, because Beato is still a lot of fun to read whenever she's on screen even after knowing the truth to it all. Maybe it isn't so for some people, maybe they feel she's ruined because they know the truth about her, but we're getting into some really meta rubbish about fictional characters within fictional universes.

I don't see why you can't just enjoy Beato as Beato. I can, it's very easy. Did you stop enjoying the Siesta sisters when you found out they were toys and guns? Or the Stakes of Purgatory when you found out they were based on maids and were also completely fictional?
>> No. 30612 edit
File 132429367998.png - (96.73KB , 640x480 , rudolftrice.png )
episode 1 ura tea party
>> No. 30613 edit
File 129697429149.png - (319.28KB , 484x580 , 凛私服01d眼鏡(近).png )
I consider the maids and the stakes the same people, and I never really gave the siestas a second thought. So maybe?
>> No. 30614 edit
File 131612165574.png - (50.17KB , 291x478 , kan_defa22.png )
Well, and tell me how this story could have ended in a satisfying end?
Massacre in a dessert island which has 100 tons of TNT, caused by the greed of the family without Hanyuu to revive Battler every time.
Yes you can say the ending is "open" because we didn't know to see how exactly the massacre happened, but that was to allow Ange to have a satisfying and successful live in the end.
>> No. 30615 edit
I liked the stakes more when I found out they were maids.
>> No. 30616 edit
File 132429386644.jpg - (59.81KB , 605x585 , 75425625.jpg )
You just said you accepted the arrogant part. He's arrogance is partly shown, if not all shown, through Auau. And Auau is, in fact, a representation of him, no matter how you look at it. It's almost as if you are denying Shkannontrice all over again. Auau is his avatar and used it to indirectly (if you can call it that) his readers.

That is the one thing I will not forgive. I can forgive the crap ending, the leading on, the Yasu character even, but I will not stand for a writer to insult the people who made his work what it is today.
If he meant no harm, he should make it much more clearer. He didn't. And made it all the more clearer he is addressing the readers themselves.
>> No. 30617 edit
>Someone fun, someone mysterious. Yasu/Shannon/Kanon does not count.
But Yasu is Beato with bonus content.
>> No. 30618 edit
They're not the same however.

One of them was a perfect maid, at least.
>> No. 30619 edit
File 129635662058.png - (2.51KB , 217x157 , rinhehtrans.png )
Well, the first step would be to have a better character as Beatrice.
>> No. 30620 edit
File 130036211110.png - (107.22KB , 320x469 , イリヤ道場03b(中).png )
Well, I have to give it some thought, but I do like Erika, regardless of whether she was a fanfic extra or not.

So I'll agree with you that much.

Both the story itself and Ange's life needed closure. Which was screwed over by letters and fanfics.
>> No. 30621 edit
No such character exists.
>> No. 30622 edit
File 129824403357.png - (326.28KB , 636x579 , 凛私服03d2(近).png )
I don't buy that because you can't prove it, but even if you assume it to be the case, I would say the "bonus content" ruins it.

You may say so, but I consider them to be the same regardless.
>> No. 30623 edit
File 132429425969.jpg - (410.79KB , 1081x804 , sketchy!.jpg )
Rin vision
>> No. 30624 edit
Why would you say that?
>> No. 30625 edit
File 129824469767.png - (325.65KB , 636x579 , 凛私服03g(近).png )
Which is the problem.
>> No. 30626 edit
File 130930661329.png - (314.08KB , 484x580 , 凛私服01d洗脳(近).png )
For the record, I never once supported Jessitrice except in a joking manner to troll Luci.

Say what?
>> No. 30627 edit
File 132429441985.jpg - (54.29KB , 300x338 , 745.jpg )
Eh, Saya no Uta was better. So was Tsukihime, even though I didn't even finish that.
>> No. 30628 edit
>I would say the "bonus content" ruins it.
>> No. 30629 edit
File 132002993741.png - (725.74KB , 595x842 , 45745975679t632.png )
Well, if you think about it, you can add anything to a sandwich. But you don't do it because it ruins the sandwich, right~?
>> No. 30630 edit
File 130931667267.png - (10.83KB , 200x200 , 154845675121.png )
Yes, I did accept he is arrogant, but you must accept he was in a difficult positon.
Ryukishi said that when he was writting Higurashi he was mostly doing it for himself (well maybe also for BT) but without really looking at the fan feedback.
But he said that he decided to write Umineko for his fans, so he always keep reading the fanbase comments of his work.
Trying to please a lot of public it's not a easy thing, I can assure that, I believe he did not wanted to repeat the Higurashi style of ending (which I liked, but I know a lot of people didn't like it) so he tried to give Umi a more meaningful ending (DEEP if you wish).
But how do you please a fanbase with so many different tastes, theories and ideals? That's what the problem he had to confront with, and well apparently his tactic was not successful as most people just took it as an offense. Then I wonder if the readers are not a bit arrogant as well.
I think most people liked the "Beatrice exists shes moe and she comes in a boat after the first twilight", but the story hinted that she doesn't exist. Well she does, but not as the 19th human on the island.
>> No. 30631 edit
File 129722763721.png - (412.21KB , 710x577 , 凛私服05c(近).png )
Right, and I HATE mayonnaise.
>> No. 30632 edit
File 131187977067.png - (317.64KB , 477x560 , 凛私服09b(近).png )
>Beatrice exists shes moe and she comes in a boat after the first twilight
That's dumb and has no clues or hints. So naturally I cannot accept that as the answer.
>> No. 30633 edit
File 129617170897.png - (15.61KB , 217x157 , kanonheh_ib4f.png )
Hahaha yes it's silly but I remember it as one of the more popular theories back then.
>> No. 30634 edit
But why is the Yasu added stuff bad rather than good?

I think it would be worse if Beatrice was simply another human who wasn't one of the others, and was just as she was presented. It's flat. How can there be a mystery regarding her heart, which was foreshadowed early on, when she's just as she appears?

It had to be someone, either acting or as a split personality. The Yasu situation, due to the level of involvement she has with her characters, is a little of both. I think that's actually more realistic than either one or the other. Though obviously, none of them are realistic.
>> No. 30635 edit
File 131530938129.png - (313.10KB , 512x582 , 凛私服12d(近).png )
I can't do that because I happen to know that Beatrice is Yasu and Shannon/Kanon were already on the island.
>> No. 30636 edit
File 132429507332.png - (314.01KB , 512x582 , 凛私服12b(近).png )
That's fair, but the problem is that it was Yasu. And you know my opinion on Yasu.
>> No. 30637 edit
Besides, the Yasu of reality is a lot like a "real" Beatrice. She is indeed a second master the servants are loyal to, as Beatrice the phantom is presented in episode 1. She is the true ruler of the island, she loves Battler, she has a penchant for trolling.

What exactly is the dissatisfying part?
>> No. 30638 edit
File 12990665416.png - (156.08KB , 468x451 , イリヤ道場04d(近).png )
He wrote himself into the difficult position.
Ever heard the expression "you can please everyone?"
He should have picked a target he could hit. But he kept writing himself into corners, which showed as his work progressed.

He shouldn't have been trying to please every single person that read it. He should have wrote it for himself first, and then see what he could do to incompace those thoughts of the readers into the writing. Not the other way around.

But no matter which way you slice it, the only part and reason I hate that ep because it blatantly insults the readers in various ways. That's it.
>> No. 30639 edit
File 132429515465.png - (29.79KB , 305x251 , even beatrice can\'t explain this shit.png )
I know your opinion on Yasu but not why you hold that opinion.
>> No. 30640 edit
File 129643686058.png - (312.95KB , 484x580 , 凛私服01c(近).png )
Because Yasu is a pathetic excuse for a character who created a bunch of imaginary friends. Also, your description here is not of Yasu itself, but rather an illusion he/she created.
Yasu didn't "love" Battler. She created a personality that loved him. Like she created Shannon who loved George, or Kanon who loved Jessica. None of these were real, they were just ideas Yasu created specifically for those purposes.
>> No. 30641 edit
File 132429548915.jpg - (67.57KB , 728x508 , erikawakarimasen.jpg )
It seems you're unable to like Beato. I won't press the issue any further.
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