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File 132428793833.jpg - (341.88KB , 1250x1000 , beato.jpg )
30539 No. 30539 edit
Sleep peacefully, my best beloved witch, Beatrice.
Expand all images
>> No. 30542 edit
I think "Tea Party at the End" sounds better. And a longer post to accompany it.

But, what the hell. It's not like there won't be another tea party commemorating the end of Umineko.
>> No. 30543 edit
I didn't feel like writing out something fancy about how much I love Beato or will miss the franchise. Not many people would really read it anyway.

Keep it simple.
>> No. 30544 edit
What a shame. It'd be a nice way to commemorate all of these years.
>> No. 30546 edit
Just enjoy the tea party. The 5 people who have actually read Umineko will enjoy it themselves, while the rest of the community will continue as though nothing happened.
>> No. 30547 edit
File 132428853745.jpg - (576.87KB , 800x900 , 1246795869318.jpg )
>I didn't feel like writing out something fancy about how much I love Beato
>> No. 30548 edit
You sound a little spiteful. Do you regret how things ended here?
>> No. 30549 edit
Hey, I may not have read it (it's apparently, what, longer than war & peace?), but I watched the anime.
>> No. 30550 edit
File 132428871430.jpg - (43.63KB , 300x344 , 924.jpg )
>> No. 30551 edit
I'll still appear to defend her whenever her name is slandered. Beato and Yasu and everyone else.

Things have not ended here, have they?

How offensive.
>> No. 30552 edit
No, but maybe they should, seeing as the original purpose has ended. I thought that was what you were upset about.
>> No. 30553 edit
I don't mean that offensively, I'm pretty sure I just saw it pointed out somewhere that it's longer. Maybe even longer that the bible (unsure on that though).
>> No. 30554 edit
File 13242888933.png - (141.00KB , 291x558 , S20_AZUMI_0_00A_05_00_L.png )
I only read like Chapters 1, 2 & 5 and whatever people streamed of it, myself. So about half of it overall, mostly just all the "good" parts of it I guess. Like the parts with Amakusa and such.
>> No. 30555 edit
Isn't it a wonderful thing that a community grew up around the work that wants to stick together after it's over?
>> No. 30556 edit
Only if no one has any lasting regrets. Happiness that excludes even one person isn't true happiness.
>> No. 30557 edit
File 132428915080.png - (137.77KB , 291x558 , S20_AZUMI_0_00A_05_01_L.png )
78864 lines overall according to TLWiki, so a bit longer than Tsukihime. Considering it's a Kinetic Novel with few-to-no branching choices, that's pretty damn long.
>> No. 30558 edit
What if there exists one person who is only happy on the condition that everyone else is not?
>> No. 30559 edit
I don't think that holds much relevance here.

In any case, that's more than enough. I only wanted to post the thread.

Have a nice dream. See you in Hell.
>> No. 30560 edit
Did that person reach this state through a community in which everyone is upset but him? In that case the community failed to reach an adequate state of happiness, as it only pleased one guy with an insane condition for his greed.
>> No. 30561 edit
Geeze, you could have at least left with some degree eloquence. Kids these days.
>> No. 30562 edit
But if that person exists, then by your logic, true happiness cannot exist.
>> No. 30563 edit
Well, see, I was trying to tie true happiness to this community and the medium in which it was built around. I didn't mean it as a general rule of reality.

My answer to that is to kill or change the person. One person stands in the way of everyone's happiness? Get rid of him. Then everyone is happy, yay.
>> No. 30564 edit
>> No. 30565 edit
File 13242896545.png - (199.49KB , 387x397 , Beatoinseriousneckpain.png )
What if people were unhappy that it had to be resolved that way? It does seem like a demonic way of achieving happiness.
>> No. 30566 edit
File 129773718627.png - (84.98KB , 291x478 , ka2_fumana66.png )
Oh darn, I missed the old fashioned discussion again.
>> No. 30567 edit
I recognized it. You still could do much better, but I guess you deserve points for using an Umineko quote.

Kill him in secret. Duh. If no one knows, no one cares.
>> No. 30568 edit
What if, despite the nature of the first theoretical person, there existed a second person who would not be happy if the first disappeared, whether they knew the reason or not?
>> No. 30569 edit
File 132429005792.jpg - (74.57KB , 600x508 , 1323317400694.jpg )
You know that the answer to this ends in blood. A lot of blood. Theoretically that many people shouldn't exist, I guess. Eventually you'd be able to secretly get rid of all the dissenters in quiet, if you had enough power.

You'd almost be like a witch. An evil, Sayaka witch who only wanted to make everyone happy. So tragic.
>> No. 30570 edit
So can true happiness only exist with witches?
>> No. 30571 edit
Yup. Or magi, if they'd ever freaking wish for the right thing.
>> No. 30572 edit
>old fashioned discussion
>look at dis character poll ponytails turn me on hurp let's kill oxen for zeus
new mystery: which part was the old fashioned discussion
>> No. 30573 edit
File 131078361375.png - (1.12MB , 818x1080 , WhatisthisIdon\'tevenknow.png )
This is what happens when you let Belphe in here:
The weirdos come out.
>> No. 30574 edit
If the weirdos flock to Belphie doesn't it make sense that Belphie is a weirdo?
>> No. 30575 edit
I didn't even start that!

It's not like I asked for these powers.
>> No. 30576 edit
File 129626327419.png - (84.95KB , 291x478 , kan_fumana3.png )
The part in which the golden witch was posting around, of course.
>> No. 30577 edit
File 129722763721.png - (412.21KB , 710x577 , 凛私服05c(近).png )
More like good riddance.
>> No. 30578 edit
No, probably not. I fail to see the correlation.

T-That's like blasphemy! >>30551 is going to be very disappointed.
>> No. 30579 edit
File 129941217595.png - (206.12KB , 393x473 , イリヤ02b(近).png )
Oh my~
Such harsh words~

At least tell us why you think that, my dearest~
>> No. 30580 edit
File 132429154142.jpg - (178.09KB , 873x656 , 3079193.jpg )
>it's not female, it's shit
>> No. 30581 edit
Your provocations are not unnoticed.

Beatrice is perfect. Do not insult her further, please.
>> No. 30582 edit
File 129671502260.png - (353.76KB , 545x583 , 凛私服04a眼鏡(近).png )
"Three people are actually one" is a very disappointing resolution. The Yasu parts of episode 7 were honestly a chore to read, and one of the reasons I argued so heavily against Shkannontrice back in the day was because I thought it was a dumb solution. Still do, I just couldn't really deny it anymore after episode 6.

I don't like how we were originally presented with the idea that this would be some kind of mystery story, but then it turned into a farce at the end. Probably the worst was the mystery violated the spirit of the Knox rules as presented, if not the literal meaning.

Hey, I can like male characters just fine. Not Yasu though, that's just terrible writing.
>> No. 30583 edit
File 129697429149.png - (319.28KB , 484x580 , 凛私服01d眼鏡(近).png )
Too late.
>> No. 30584 edit
File 131545070866.jpg - (50.86KB , 461x499 , 1314676869111.jpg )
Most likely because Yasu is such a pitiful character~
>> No. 30585 edit
File 132394767499.jpg - (41.77KB , 280x285 , 61.jpg )
I agree with Ange, for the record. These are all fair points that have been brought up before by /jp/.
>> No. 30586 edit
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>> No. 30587 edit
File 132429193765.png - (210.26KB , 441x669 , s020_1aa2ba_070_z.png )
I agree with everything Rin just said, actually.
>> No. 30588 edit
I don't think anybody was particularly pleased with the Yasu solution. However, Beato herself is an entirely different character. Yes, Beatrice is a part of Yasu, as are Shannon and Kanon. But they're different characters.

Unless you want to go full anti-fantasy, but since everybody seems to like the fantasy parts more anyway that seems a little silly.

Only people who have read it should be allowed to comment.
>> No. 30589 edit
File 132429207657.jpg - (47.81KB , 300x341 , 920.jpg )
Maybe if it ended differently I would have been inclined to finish. I agree with your assertion there that Beato is a separate character from Yasu. Fair point though, I'll shut up.
>> No. 30590 edit
This. I always debated against "ShKanontrice" guys (thank god that term isn't really used anymore) because the theory was beyond crazy and I couldn't believe what had so far been an intriguing mystery had that at its core.

Unfortunately for me, the author was just as crazy if not moreso than the theorists.
>> No. 30591 edit
File 129651591726.png - (319.07KB , 484x580 , 凛私服01a眼鏡(近).png )
>However, Beato herself is an entirely different character
Unfortunately, I don't accept this. Did you notice as we grew closer and closer to the conclusion, there was less and less of a "Beatrice" in the story? It's because as we found out the truth, we discovered there never really was a Beatrice. At least not in the sense presented at first.
>> No. 30592 edit
File 12959202433.png - (89.42KB , 291x478 , kan_waraia123.png )
Wait a second, when was set in stone that Beatrice is a male?
Well, the question arc episodes where the "mystery" episodes. If anything Ryukishi prepared us for something like this ages ago, there's the anti-mystery/anti-fantasy hint, for example. Furthermore I believe that ep8 explains in a way why the story ended like this.
>> No. 30593 edit
File 129592202371.png - (220.81KB , 473x483 , イリヤ06b(近).png )
Yeah, all different shapes and forms. Didn't help that she kept on dying too...~
>> No. 30594 edit
Isn't that more a side effect of the way Ryukishi chose to deliver the truth regarding her?

The last part doesn't strike me as particularly relevant either - Beatrice's mystery was always integral to the story, of course she didn't exist in the way she was first presented.

The theorists weren't crazy for reading between the lines. If anything, it's the people who didn't believe in Shkanontrice or some similar theory who were crazy by denying the obvious. THAT is delusional.
>> No. 30595 edit
File 132429248582.jpg - (175.02KB , 396x401 , 1257752381099.jpg )
>it's possibly not female it's shit just in case
>> No. 30596 edit
Those sound like the words of one of the theorists.
>> No. 30597 edit
File 129599725748.png - (85.34KB , 291x478 , kan_majimea37.png )
Oh well, I don't consider it delusional until ep6 got translated. Before that we had no real evidence because lol atlas.
>> No. 30598 edit
File 132144105157.png - (224.91KB , 305x463 , 8456789u7342.png )
>Beatrice's mystery

Can't agree with you there, chap. R07 violated every sense of the word mystery. It was more like a deeply buried truth at that point.
>> No. 30599 edit
File 130053699660.png - (265.08KB , 406x570 , 凛私服11f(近).png )
She doesn't exist in the way first presented because she's Yasu. Some girl(?) went crazy and invented a bunch of imaginary friends for her(?)self. It's not terribly good character design and it's not a good story either. The whole silly debacle started because of fantasies she put in the messages in the bottles.

Another thing that bugged me is the idea that all of the characters as presented are fake. We are given only a skewed viewpoint in their portrayal throughout the various arcs, and the truth of the matter is that none of those things might have happened. In that case, how do we know what these characters are really like? Umineko doesn't give an answer, and that annoys me a lot. Beatrice, of course, never existed and completely disappeared from the story in the answer arc because of all the characters, she's the least real.
>> No. 30600 edit
Well, considering it was right...

Mystery, the truth, whatever you please. Beato's heart was one of the key points of the story.
>> No. 30601 edit
File 132212713094.jpg - (71.56KB , 300x252 , 363.jpg )
>Beatrice, of course, never existed and completely disappeared from the story in the answer arc because of all the characters, she's the least real.

Poor Beato.
>> No. 30602 edit
File 129599669097.png - (84.80KB , 291x478 , kan_nayamua42.png )
The problem here is that most people wanted to get an orthodox mystery from Umineko, when the main theme of it was always deception, fantasy and well, trolling in general.
Thanks to the "mystery plot" from the first episodes we got to understood who beatrice was, and why did this massacre started. We don't get to see how exactly happened, Why? well consider Ryukishi a depressed emo if you wish, but he had a reason.
>> No. 30603 edit
The love people felt for Beato is the same love Battler felt when recovering his memory of her. When the truth was revealed and when his memory was restored, it was shown that she didn't exist to both. Battler probably felt the same depression in episode 6 that people feel now that they know the truth. So DEEP, man.
>> No. 30604 edit
File 130183140637.png - (222.03KB , 473x483 , イリヤ06a(近).png )
Not to mention that when an author insults his readers for not pursuing a truth which he shoves in their faces but refuses to confirm themselves is quite lazy and arrogant, in my opinion.

Rather, he went on a backwards way of doing it.
>> No. 30605 edit
Yes, and? She was always going to be somebody on the island once you ruled out mysterious person X. That she was Yasu and Yasu being somewhat disappointing has already been addressed.

Beato was a great character. She was a lot of fun. Yasu doesn't change that.
>> No. 30606 edit
That's not true, Beatrice arrives on a boat after people start dying.
>> No. 30607 edit
File 132144304162.png - (1.56MB , 1341x1079 , 7ea2357099457.png )
So you want me to sympathize with someone who was crazy and had murderous intent, all the while the author throwing every single "woo is me" background detail upon them?
Nah. I sympathize with Yasu as much as I sympathize with Erika's craziness.

We don't get to see anything because R07 wants people to "make up their own decisions" and then say "those decisions are wrong. It's the one I keep hinting at and you are dumb for not seeing it."
R07 might be emo or whatever, be he is an arrogant asshat, that's for sure...
>> No. 30608 edit
File 129773718627.png - (84.98KB , 291x478 , ka2_fumana66.png )
>insulting his readers for not pursuing a truth which he shoves in their faces but refuses to confirm themselves is quite lazy and arrogant, in my opinion.
First point, in my opinion most people overeacted with the "goats" stuff. In ep7 Ange tell Auau to never insult his readers (And with this we can sense that Auau doesn't represent Ryukishi feelings about his readers)
Second point: >Lazy and arrogant
Yes, I will accept the arrogant part, but it's definitelly not lazy. He's clearly anything but lazy. His intention was to avoid the lazy ending in which everything is revealed and everyone lives happy in the end. (Higurashi)
And when we exactly were told that beatrice was another person? Don't you remember the 19th person stuff? Even Virgilia say in ep that Beatrice is just the personification of the rules of the game.
>> No. 30609 edit
File 129660024462.png - (412.15KB , 710x577 , 凛私服05d(近).png )
>Yasu didn't change that
Well, it did for me. Since they're the same person, the amount of disappoint I have for Yasu (let's throw in how much I hate the character Lion in there for good measure) significantly outweighs whatever feelings of amusement I might have derived from Beato, and the severe lack of Beato in the second half of the story only served to make matters worse in that regard for me. Even if/when I read episode 8, I'll still know that the Beatrice presented to me in that is fake as well.

Maybe I'm just disappointed because I wanted Beatrice to be real. Not in the sense that she's a witch real, but that there actually was someone like that on the island. Someone fun, someone mysterious. Yasu/Shannon/Kanon does not count.

Well, yes, R07 was awful for doing that, though my dislike for R07 is separate from my dislike for Beato, at least. Though I suppose they are related since Beato is nothing more than a byproduct of his addled imagination.
>> No. 30610 edit
File 131818788985.png - (313.74KB , 484x580 , 凛私服01a洗脳(近).png )
You call an ending "lazy," I call it "satisfying."
>> No. 30611 edit
I'm not saying you have to sympathize with Yasu.

But I don't like people pretending Beato is ruined because she is also Yasu. That's wrong, because Beato is still a lot of fun to read whenever she's on screen even after knowing the truth to it all. Maybe it isn't so for some people, maybe they feel she's ruined because they know the truth about her, but we're getting into some really meta rubbish about fictional characters within fictional universes.

I don't see why you can't just enjoy Beato as Beato. I can, it's very easy. Did you stop enjoying the Siesta sisters when you found out they were toys and guns? Or the Stakes of Purgatory when you found out they were based on maids and were also completely fictional?
>> No. 30612 edit
File 132429367998.png - (96.73KB , 640x480 , rudolftrice.png )
episode 1 ura tea party
>> No. 30613 edit
File 129697429149.png - (319.28KB , 484x580 , 凛私服01d眼鏡(近).png )
I consider the maids and the stakes the same people, and I never really gave the siestas a second thought. So maybe?
>> No. 30614 edit
File 131612165574.png - (50.17KB , 291x478 , kan_defa22.png )
Well, and tell me how this story could have ended in a satisfying end?
Massacre in a dessert island which has 100 tons of TNT, caused by the greed of the family without Hanyuu to revive Battler every time.
Yes you can say the ending is "open" because we didn't know to see how exactly the massacre happened, but that was to allow Ange to have a satisfying and successful live in the end.
>> No. 30615 edit
I liked the stakes more when I found out they were maids.
>> No. 30616 edit
File 132429386644.jpg - (59.81KB , 605x585 , 75425625.jpg )
You just said you accepted the arrogant part. He's arrogance is partly shown, if not all shown, through Auau. And Auau is, in fact, a representation of him, no matter how you look at it. It's almost as if you are denying Shkannontrice all over again. Auau is his avatar and used it to indirectly (if you can call it that) his readers.

That is the one thing I will not forgive. I can forgive the crap ending, the leading on, the Yasu character even, but I will not stand for a writer to insult the people who made his work what it is today.
If he meant no harm, he should make it much more clearer. He didn't. And made it all the more clearer he is addressing the readers themselves.
>> No. 30617 edit
>Someone fun, someone mysterious. Yasu/Shannon/Kanon does not count.
But Yasu is Beato with bonus content.
>> No. 30618 edit
They're not the same however.

One of them was a perfect maid, at least.
>> No. 30619 edit
File 129635662058.png - (2.51KB , 217x157 , rinhehtrans.png )
Well, the first step would be to have a better character as Beatrice.
>> No. 30620 edit
File 130036211110.png - (107.22KB , 320x469 , イリヤ道場03b(中).png )
Well, I have to give it some thought, but I do like Erika, regardless of whether she was a fanfic extra or not.

So I'll agree with you that much.

Both the story itself and Ange's life needed closure. Which was screwed over by letters and fanfics.
>> No. 30621 edit
No such character exists.
>> No. 30622 edit
File 129824403357.png - (326.28KB , 636x579 , 凛私服03d2(近).png )
I don't buy that because you can't prove it, but even if you assume it to be the case, I would say the "bonus content" ruins it.

You may say so, but I consider them to be the same regardless.
>> No. 30623 edit
File 132429425969.jpg - (410.79KB , 1081x804 , sketchy!.jpg )
Rin vision
>> No. 30624 edit
Why would you say that?
>> No. 30625 edit
File 129824469767.png - (325.65KB , 636x579 , 凛私服03g(近).png )
Which is the problem.
>> No. 30626 edit
File 130930661329.png - (314.08KB , 484x580 , 凛私服01d洗脳(近).png )
For the record, I never once supported Jessitrice except in a joking manner to troll Luci.

Say what?
>> No. 30627 edit
File 132429441985.jpg - (54.29KB , 300x338 , 745.jpg )
Eh, Saya no Uta was better. So was Tsukihime, even though I didn't even finish that.
>> No. 30628 edit
>I would say the "bonus content" ruins it.
>> No. 30629 edit
File 132002993741.png - (725.74KB , 595x842 , 45745975679t632.png )
Well, if you think about it, you can add anything to a sandwich. But you don't do it because it ruins the sandwich, right~?
>> No. 30630 edit
File 130931667267.png - (10.83KB , 200x200 , 154845675121.png )
Yes, I did accept he is arrogant, but you must accept he was in a difficult positon.
Ryukishi said that when he was writting Higurashi he was mostly doing it for himself (well maybe also for BT) but without really looking at the fan feedback.
But he said that he decided to write Umineko for his fans, so he always keep reading the fanbase comments of his work.
Trying to please a lot of public it's not a easy thing, I can assure that, I believe he did not wanted to repeat the Higurashi style of ending (which I liked, but I know a lot of people didn't like it) so he tried to give Umi a more meaningful ending (DEEP if you wish).
But how do you please a fanbase with so many different tastes, theories and ideals? That's what the problem he had to confront with, and well apparently his tactic was not successful as most people just took it as an offense. Then I wonder if the readers are not a bit arrogant as well.
I think most people liked the "Beatrice exists shes moe and she comes in a boat after the first twilight", but the story hinted that she doesn't exist. Well she does, but not as the 19th human on the island.
>> No. 30631 edit
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Right, and I HATE mayonnaise.
>> No. 30632 edit
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>Beatrice exists shes moe and she comes in a boat after the first twilight
That's dumb and has no clues or hints. So naturally I cannot accept that as the answer.
>> No. 30633 edit
File 129617170897.png - (15.61KB , 217x157 , kanonheh_ib4f.png )
Hahaha yes it's silly but I remember it as one of the more popular theories back then.
>> No. 30634 edit
But why is the Yasu added stuff bad rather than good?

I think it would be worse if Beatrice was simply another human who wasn't one of the others, and was just as she was presented. It's flat. How can there be a mystery regarding her heart, which was foreshadowed early on, when she's just as she appears?

It had to be someone, either acting or as a split personality. The Yasu situation, due to the level of involvement she has with her characters, is a little of both. I think that's actually more realistic than either one or the other. Though obviously, none of them are realistic.
>> No. 30635 edit
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I can't do that because I happen to know that Beatrice is Yasu and Shannon/Kanon were already on the island.
>> No. 30636 edit
File 132429507332.png - (314.01KB , 512x582 , 凛私服12b(近).png )
That's fair, but the problem is that it was Yasu. And you know my opinion on Yasu.
>> No. 30637 edit
Besides, the Yasu of reality is a lot like a "real" Beatrice. She is indeed a second master the servants are loyal to, as Beatrice the phantom is presented in episode 1. She is the true ruler of the island, she loves Battler, she has a penchant for trolling.

What exactly is the dissatisfying part?
>> No. 30638 edit
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He wrote himself into the difficult position.
Ever heard the expression "you can please everyone?"
He should have picked a target he could hit. But he kept writing himself into corners, which showed as his work progressed.

He shouldn't have been trying to please every single person that read it. He should have wrote it for himself first, and then see what he could do to incompace those thoughts of the readers into the writing. Not the other way around.

But no matter which way you slice it, the only part and reason I hate that ep because it blatantly insults the readers in various ways. That's it.
>> No. 30639 edit
File 132429515465.png - (29.79KB , 305x251 , even beatrice can\'t explain this shit.png )
I know your opinion on Yasu but not why you hold that opinion.
>> No. 30640 edit
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Because Yasu is a pathetic excuse for a character who created a bunch of imaginary friends. Also, your description here is not of Yasu itself, but rather an illusion he/she created.
Yasu didn't "love" Battler. She created a personality that loved him. Like she created Shannon who loved George, or Kanon who loved Jessica. None of these were real, they were just ideas Yasu created specifically for those purposes.
>> No. 30641 edit
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It seems you're unable to like Beato. I won't press the issue any further.
>> No. 30642 edit
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Yes I have heard it, but it doesn't mean one cannot try it right?
Picking a single "target" audience is sometimes harsh don't you think? Does that mean that the other ideals were wrong? Or they are less important? And don't worry, he accepted that the way he wrote Umineko was too tiring to make it again, he wil write for himself in the future.
>> No. 30643 edit
What do you mean by real? You detach "Yasu" too much from the acts she plays, when she's tied up in them. Her whole existence is a composition of those acts.

Yasu felt real love for Battler, and this is why she couldn't just act away her love when it became painful. She had to transfer it from one act to another, because as it was real, she still had to experience that love.
>> No. 30644 edit
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An act is an act. I do not accept an illusion as a person, and therein lies my problem with Yasu.

I can see what you are trying to say, but I don't agree with it. I do not believe her feelings for Battler are real--after all, she barely knew the guy. What makes Beatrice more special than Shannon or Kanon anyway? That's an arbitrary judgment. If anything Kanon should be the most real one since at least Yasu lived with Jessica.
>> No. 30645 edit
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It means if you try to please everyone, you are gonna fail. It's inevitable to have a few people hating on your work. But that's how it goes.
Doesn't mean they are wrong or that they should be ignored, but you can't just throw the pen at them and yell "write it yourselves, you douches!" and take off running with your middle finger in the air.

And quite honestly, after reading Umineko and starting with Higanbana, I'd rather him just take a long break from writing. About a year or so to clear and gather his thoughts.
>> No. 30646 edit
File 129607322051.png - (37.53KB , 434x515 , kan_majimea10.png )
If you are still offended then there's nothing else I can argue about, you are totally free to feel like that.
>> No. 30647 edit
I believe what makes her more real is that the core of her character, her love for Battler, was stronger than that of Kanon's for Jessica or Shannon's for George. It was something that went far beyond the act.

Saying you don't believe her feelings are real is just weird. I think the story clearly demonstrates that they are. It would make more sense if you said you think it's weak characterization, that it's hard to believe in general that those feelings could come about.
>> No. 30648 edit
File 129643757345.png - (321.40KB , 459x583 , 凛私服06d(近).png )
Well, that's another reason why I don't like the "Beatrice is Yasu" solution. Because it makes me believe that her feelings for Battler are fake.

Might I cite the part in episode 7 where Yasu says that she can no longer love Battler? That's why she created the hollow "Beatrice," after all. To love him for her. Of course, that was an illusion, the love was really just gone. The story was about a fake.
>> No. 30649 edit
File 132003397654.png - (500.13KB , 493x717 , 798468p9452.png )
Well, it does have it's moments. I'm just saying that it could have been executed a bit better, is all. And that I just hate that particular thing (insulting his readers).

But I like all the moments with Erika in it, though I felt kind of bad when she was pretty much a hot potato for the Ushiromiyas starts batting her back and forth like a tennis ball.

She seemed very confused about how she felt about anything. And this was a character that could mold and separate her feelings and thoughts.
>> No. 30650 edit
I don't think that adequately explains why she had to create, or rather, alter, one of her personalities to hold Battler's love. If it was fake, she could just do away with it entirely.

She turned the act people are more familiar with into one that didn't love Battler, and the one that was less known, less public, into the one that did.

If you ask why Beatrice is better than Shannon or Kanon, which episode 6 presents her to be, and at the same time call her love for Battler fake, you're ignoring obvious the answer to your own question.
>> No. 30651 edit
File 129617250667.png - (35.12KB , 200x200 , kslion_ib4f.png )
It surely could, but I still feel satisfied with the actual end. And well, that part was to make the pieces had a good last scene.
Love someone so much it hurts, it have ever happened to you?
About that well, I think it's a bit harsh to objectively judge it like that considering the split personality it's quite complex. And from our friend Kakera we know it's a serious bussiness.
>> No. 30652 edit
But Rin doesn't believe in Kakera either.
>> No. 30654 edit
If you can't accept the way Yasu works is to be realistic (understandable), you can't rearrange her character in a way that is clearly not intended by the author, but matches your own view of the way things work. Essentially, you have to allow for what to you may be nonsensical, magical Yasu logic in the middle of your interpretation.

Granted, not being able to accept how she works is a perfect reason to dislike her as a character, but I still hold it's better than multiple personalities. There wouldn't be much to tell in Yasu's backstory were that the case.

Unlike Rin, I found those parts to be very interesting.
>> No. 30655 edit
File 132429794516.png - (322.87KB , 459x583 , 凛私服06e(近).png )
I'm afraid I don't follow the last part. Since her love for Battler is fake, there's nothing about Beatrice that means that she's any more than the other illusions Yasu had dreamed up.

Now you're trying to second-guess Yasu's rationale for creating personalities. I think this is silly, because it's not as if there's a consistent pattern. Beatrice was something she created to cope with the fact that she couldn't love someone who wasn't present, but she had other forms of Beatrice that she originally created, then gradually faded away. The only reason that Beatrice "revived" is because Battler returned to the island, I would say. That reminded her of what she felt then, but she still couldn't really bring herself to love Battler, because he didn't even remember her.

I'll try to hold back my comments on how I thought the split personality part was just lazy writing, then. Suffice it to say I'll be harsh on Yasu because I hate the character and I consider it to be completely fair.
>> No. 30656 edit
File 129660024462.png - (412.15KB , 710x577 , 凛私服05d(近).png )
>Essentially, you have to allow for what to you may be nonsensical, magical Yasu logic in the middle of your interpretation.
Having to do that only makes me despise the character.
>> No. 30657 edit
File 13242984287.jpg - (34.62KB , 960x540 , damngirl.jpg )
>Now you're trying to second-guess Yasu's rationale for creating personalities
I don't think I'm second-guessing. I think you can get this all from what's presented.
>but she had other forms of Beatrice that she originally created, then gradually faded away
Where is the evidence that her versions of Beatrice faded away? According to episode 7, Beatrice was a constant presence, she was just changed over time, and especially at a pivotal point.

>The only reason that Beatrice "revived" is because Battler returned to the island, I would say.
You're saying Beatrice doesn't exist until Battler comes back? I think she remained constant the whole time. The trick that was played on Jessica, the one on Gohda in the TIPS, the opening of windows at night, the reverence the servants show and the experiences of previous servants are all results of Yasu continuing to act as Beatrice, just like she invoked her magic with the key ring. The Beatrice that originally just played these tricks was now in addition the part of Yasu that loves Battler, so that love continued. And how would you explain the 6/1000 years thing if Yasu was not really waiting as Beatrice during that period?

It seems like you're saying that Yasu was essentially just Kanon and Shannon until Battler came back, but the evidence suggests otherwise.
>> No. 30658 edit
File 129652277514.png - (314.29KB , 484x580 , 凛私服01e(近).png )
Okay, this is why talking about "Beatrice" can get confusing, because there are like 5 different versions of Beatrice. I think you're misunderstanding what I say when I say that Beatrice was only revived when Battler returned--I was referring specifically to the "Beatrice that loves Battler" that Yasu created. The other aspects of Beatrice remained, of course. What I meant about the parts of Beatrice "fading away" were the old images of her, such as the white-haired version and the Gaap version. But we're dealing with illusions, not people (or characters for that matter), so that's why I talk about them as in "aspects."

What I meant by second-guessing is that Yasu creates new illusions for whatever reason--the original idea of Beatrice had nothing to do with a strong love, after all. The fact that Yasu created an illusion that loved Battler has absolutely no bearing on the strength of the feeling.
>> No. 30659 edit
>I think you're misunderstanding what I say when I say that Beatrice was only revived when Battler returned--I was referring specifically to the "Beatrice that loves Battler" that Yasu created.
"Beatirce that loves Battler" is a continuation of the Clair sprite one, the Beatrice from when Yasu first became a witch, rather than having a friend who was a witch (Gaap).

Admittedly, I forgot about Gaap Beatrice, because though she was given the name Beatrice, she was a different type of existence to the one Yasu created. She was an explanation for Yasu's forgetfulness someone who was said to use magic but never actually did it, physically. Clair Beatrice, on the other hand, was a personality through which Yasu actually performed "magic" by pulling tricks on people. It was an active manifestation of her desires. This is the Beatrice that remains constant, she never disappears, she only changes when Yasu transfers the love from Shannon to Beatrice. Clair Beatrice becomes the Beatrice who loves Battler in addition to the one who actively plays tricks. The one who actively plays tricks after that point does not exist independently of the one that loves Battler. It was a transformation.

Therefore, the continuation of those kinds of tricks, those acts as Beatrice, are also evidence of the continuation of her love for Battler.
>> No. 30660 edit
File 129643686058.png - (312.95KB , 484x580 , 凛私服01c(近).png )
>Therefore, the continuation of those kinds of tricks, those acts as Beatrice, are also evidence of the continuation of her love for Battler.
Wait, what? Just because one thing continues doesn't mean everything does. There was even an acknowledgement of Yasu being no longer to love Battler in episode 7.
>> No. 30661 edit
File 129779598726.jpg - (311.72KB , 753x800 , TheyreStillTryingToCarveTomorrowFromATombstone-But.jpg )
Well, I've laid out my logic and I think that's the way it's presented in the story. The Beatrice with white hair - the one that actively plays tricks - is shown to change into the one we are all familiar with. That's why I think that if the tricks have continued, so have the feelings. The suggestion that simply erasing the love is not possible, as well as and the grudge Beatrice holds strongly against Battler due to her 1000 (6) years of waiting, point to the same conclusion.

If you still disagree, that's that.
>> No. 30662 edit
File 129660024462.png - (412.15KB , 710x577 , 凛私服05d(近).png )
All right, well thank you. You've convinced me more so than ever that Beatrice was just an illusion, and that Yasu didn't love Battler. Being able to reason out my thoughts and argue them has helped me realize exactly why I don't like Yasu.

Sorry that you failed to convince me, though. I'm afraid that's just impossible, because Yasu is just a terrible character (and thus so is Beatrice by extension). In the end, illusions are merely illusions.
>> No. 30663 edit
File 132430066241.png - (127.56KB , 359x391 , Jessica2.png )
>All right, well thank you. You've convinced me more so than ever that Beatrice was just an illusion, and that Yasu didn't love Battler.
I think it's pretty rare for me to convince anyone of anything (that I actually want to convince them of).
>> No. 30664 edit
File 129635662058.png - (2.51KB , 217x157 , rinhehtrans.png )
Hey, whatever you say, buddy~
>> No. 30665 edit
File 132430089993.png - (205.67KB , 572x589 , S02_KAZU_0_02A_06_01_L.png )
>Time to kill some bugs
omg you bought it?!
>> No. 30666 edit
File 132430129664.jpg - (40.25KB , 848x480 , 1270997148155.jpg )
>Hey, whatever you say, buddy~
If only.
>> No. 30667 edit
File 132430163096.jpg - (45.14KB , 320x300 , 101.jpg )
I did! It was like 40$ too, what a ripoff. The used was supposed to be 20 but noooo, of course they had to be out the one time I wanna buy a game!

I didn't play it yet though. I got into a bunch of silly arguments instead.
>> No. 30668 edit
What are you talking about?
>> No. 30669 edit
File 132394941568.jpg - (57.88KB , 300x391 , 322.jpg )
What do you mean? I bought a game for the PS3 recently, since I'm on college break.
>> No. 30670 edit
But what game?
>> No. 30671 edit
File 130972067074.jpg - (49.53KB , 340x330 , 15.jpg )
Ya that's what I paid too. More of a 30 imo but w/e.

Just be like "no u" and then play it. Should work. I SHOULD go to sleep but fuck it. I can help you grind if you want. Throw it into hard mode immediately. kukuku
>> No. 30672 edit
File 132430224391.jpg - (37.74KB , 300x269 , 724.jpg )
O-Oh, Earth defense force, insect Armageddon. It's apparently on steam for download now too.

I just have poor luck; I was so sure I'd be able to get a 20$ since almost everyone hates it. Suffering.

I-I kinda can't back out that easily. And yeah, I've been up so late too, accursed insomnia!
>> No. 30673 edit
File 132430281179.jpg - (42.87KB , 300x256 , 406.jpg )
It's on steam too?! I force Cake to play it with me too then. OH WOW AND IT'S 14 DOLLARS HAHAHAHA! We've been had!

So no EDF this morning? Is this an obstacle I can punch?
>> No. 30674 edit
File 132430296726.jpg - (73.17KB , 500x281 , 718.jpg )

Dammit and I wanted to get Battlefield 3 too. I just managed to get away from my conversation, but I'm a bit too sleepy to dive into INSANE MODO. How about we rendezvous here later tonight? I'll try to get you on IM or something and then we can start the glorious grind.
>> No. 30675 edit
Belphe-tan should play with Feenie-san ne.
>> No. 30676 edit
File 132430368829.jpg - (112.36KB , 640x480 , Lunar2Complete.jpg )
Yeah it's pretty funny huh? Is it really a PACKAGE that adds that much? Oh well, I still prefer physical copies. Every once in a while some awesome shit like this comes along too.

Oh I played the beta of BF3. I was good doctor~
Sure, you got my MSN right? And if that don't work you can always just pop in here. Hopefully it's around 9PM or later.
>> No. 30677 edit
...Which would be midnight for you. My bad.
>> No. 30678 edit
File 132430389413.jpg - (52.35KB , 300x352 , 327.jpg )
Why does Lunar sound so familiar to me? Is that...the game with Dragonmaster Dyne? Oh god, did you ever play the pinball extra disc that came with the first Lunar? I played that for hours if that's the game I'm thinking of.

Didn't the beta suck? Either way I'm kinda tired of Killzone, so I was thinking of getting it. It has to be better than CoD. I don't have it, but I managed to add Nari I think, so hopefully I can figure it out later.
>> No. 30679 edit
File 13239542969.jpg - (36.28KB , 300x327 , omg.jpg )
Oh god you played it. You and Lili are awesome. Yeah the pinball was a secret in the making of disc I think?

Well it didn't really make me wanna buy it. I had some fun with it though. I love that it was free. Yeah that was pretty great. Email is [email protected] if you forgot.
>> No. 30680 edit
File 132430480311.jpg - (46.62KB , 298x318 , 483.jpg )
It was something like that. I used to play it with an old friend for hours, good memories!

I'll try adding you and working out the mess that is Yahoo/MSN/IM later. Right now I wanna get some sleep~
>> No. 30681 edit
Have a nice day.
>> No. 30682 edit
Sleep well belphe
>> No. 30683 edit
File 130236865114.jpg - (318.81KB , 740x1069 , 14447523.jpg )
Riri, hit me up on IM. Need to go over D&D stuff, providing I'm still awake.
>> No. 30684 edit
File 130390293473.jpg - (469.82KB , 708x1000 , 14742484.jpg )
Never mind! I need to sleep.
>> No. 30685 edit
File 129868802358.jpg - (82.30KB , 480x800 , flowers for you.jpg )
>> No. 30686 edit
File 132430956820.png - (110.77KB , 302x373 , WithThisHandIShallTearAsunderTheBarrierBetweenYouA.png )
Top of the morning.
>> No. 30687 edit
File 129608944790.jpg - (40.44KB , 249x259 , georgebright.jpg )
>> No. 30688 edit
File 129869398234.png - (55.35KB , 535x1095 , 129862868990.png )
>> No. 30689 edit
>213 reports
Resolve them George you lazy bum.
>> No. 30690 edit
File 130133575390.png - (110.83KB , 274x376 , Lily4b.png )
>rage over Umineko Ending
I told you it was shit after I read Episode 1.
>> No. 30691 edit
File 132431463733.jpg - (22.54KB , 542x353 , dr_ozaki tried.jpg )
>> No. 30692 edit
>after I read half of episode 1
>> No. 30693 edit
File 130163325257.png - (306.26KB , 459x757 , chibi lily.png )
I actually finished Episode 1, but I may have said it was shit even before finishing it.

It's because as a literary expert, I can tell shit writing from miles distance.
>> No. 30694 edit
File 129592195056.jpg - (31.64KB , 135x172 , georgerabububble.jpg )

It can't be helped, they're to be preserved for posterity.
>> No. 30695 edit
File 130644669175.png - (111.88KB , 258x380 , Lily1b.png )
I did like all fantasy scenes, though. Beatrice was interesting, if nothing else.
>> No. 30696 edit
how can you tell when it's translated by a bunch of amateurs
>> No. 30697 edit
>fantasy scenes
>episode 1
>> No. 30698 edit
File 130644669175.png - (111.88KB , 258x380 , Lily1b.png )
>watched the anime
>> No. 30699 edit
File 130159019023.png - (38.38KB , 334x210 , puni_psyduck.png )
Of course, I wasn't serious about the literary expert part, but I recall saying before that Umineko really wasn't that well written and that it was going down retarded paths. I would've much preferred a stronger mystery.
>> No. 30700 edit
File 132431505289.jpg - (340.06KB , 1280x720 , 8874334.jpg )
>watched the anime
>dropped the novel after the first episode due concerns of literary merit
>> No. 30701 edit
File 132431510170.jpg - (85.34KB , 500x500 , 7468642.jpg )
well disregard that now
>> No. 30702 edit
File 130159019023.png - (38.38KB , 334x210 , puni_psyduck.png )
>> No. 30703 edit
I believe that it had potential to become a good story

However Ryukishi didn't execute it properly

and I think that Ryukishi should stop with the
"It was more awesome in my head"

nuff said.....lets change of topic.....

Who was your favorite character in Umineko after
reading the 8 episodes?
>> No. 30704 edit
File 132431518744.jpg - (35.50KB , 242x163 , georguryuuuzoom.jpg )

pfft even I didn't finish the anime
>> No. 30705 edit
r07 because he is a deeply flawed character who comes across as human, such as in his failures to write
>> No. 30706 edit
I dont know
I don't like Featherinne augustus aurora
She is just a manipulative bitch....

I liked Eva and Evatrice
>> No. 30707 edit
File 130696303090.jpg - (116.52KB , 528x774 , IWantToBeTheOneWhodWalkAThousandMilesToFallDownAtY.jpg )
Geshikkar because she is strong but also pretty.
>> No. 30708 edit
I also liked her......she along with gohda can
be considered the true victims of the Rokkenjima
>> No. 30709 edit
File 132431605832.jpg - (302.64KB , 640x480 , ass.jpg )
My heart goes out to her.
>> No. 30710 edit
File 129875691680.jpg - (125.33KB , 640x480 , georgegunununu.jpg )
Jessica is a violent fist-murderer.
>> No. 30711 edit
File 132431823167.jpg - (40.26KB , 432x473 , I\'llgetmycoat.jpg )
You can't murder fists, they aren't people.
>> No. 30712 edit
pick one
>> No. 30713 edit
File 130999359835.jpg - (23.77KB , 238x215 , georgesittingonjessica.jpg )

People have fists, so naturally if you murder the people the fists follow suit.
>> No. 30715 edit
File 132431884993.png - (361.04KB , 677x480 , KyrieHah2.png )
Now I've seen it all.

Once, George wouldn't even be caught joking about Kyrie not being the culprit.
>> No. 30716 edit
File 132431896557.jpg - (43.96KB , 412x540 , 1252033753740.jpg )
Murder is an action that can't be performed on fists. The person can't follow suit because the fists can't be murdered to start with.
>> No. 30717 edit
File 12976358645.png - (93.89KB , 601x480 , georgesmirkpoint.png )

Irony aside, of course, I knew Kyrie was the culprit before thinking so was cool!


If you blow up a plane to kill someone, you're murdering that person! In the same way, if you blow up a person, you can do so to murder that person's fists!
>> No. 30718 edit
omg stop it hipster
>> No. 30719 edit
File 132431980069.jpg - (114.54KB , 500x501 , jessieloves.jpg )
What you accused Jessica of was fist-murdering. Fist-exploding does not apply, and even the technically-impossible-without-mystic-powers-of-death-perception fist-killing. You can kill a rabbit but it isn't murder.

Jessica is also too busy writing sweet love letters and scrunching them up before she can present them to her lesbian would-be lover to murder anything or anyone.
>> No. 30720 edit
File 129789650251.png - (14.11KB , 200x200 , saku_fancy.png )
>this discussion
What absolute twaddle.
>> No. 30721 edit
File 132431997261.jpg - (235.18KB , 600x789 , IAmTheGreatPretenderWillingToDreamForever.jpg )
He started it. I just wanted to discuss beautiful Jessie-chan.
>> No. 30722 edit
File 132431998239.jpg - (289.20KB , 1024x571 , 1317272186462.jpg )
>Yuru Yuri

>> No. 30724 edit
File 129626566459.png - (6.59KB , 217x157 , georgeheh.png )

Well, naturally I meant murdering with fists. You were the one who brought up the notion of murdering a fist itself.
>> No. 30725 edit
I am happy when teaparty is active
>> No. 30726 edit
File 132432054221.jpg - (238.56KB , 550x412 , TheWindIsCarryingMyHeartOrSomeKindOfStrangeImageNa.jpg )
You should be more clear next time.
>> No. 30727 edit
when piece belphe and Luci comes this get pretty
active~ you should come more often~
>> No. 30728 edit
File 132432120541.jpg - (200.08KB , 800x800 , 10597110.jpg )
Remove everyone's access to viewing IP addresses and act out the parts of those three to create an illusion of activeness. It is easy.

Luci is all like "How terrible. I hope you refrain from further blasphemy." And other kinds of scolding in a formal manner.
Belphe can just talk about the goings on in his life, make sure to use Yuuko pictures and include some statements that you can later latch onto to make some kind reference to density This along with the images will imply to people that it is Belphe even if you don't use the name.
For Piece you can just post however.
>> No. 30729 edit
File 130972799571.jpg - (16.07KB , 120x114 , georgeup.jpg )

Genius our post count will multiply threefold.
>> No. 30730 edit
I agree with a lot of what Rin said. I really enjoyed the mystery, and even the fantasy parts, but after the whole Yasu/multiple personality thing comes up, it was pretty much a slap in the face. Then Ryu continues to slap the readers in the face. (See, arrogance part Lambda mentions)
>> No. 30731 edit
Ugh....of all Moon-chan images you had to use that one.....(Unrelated to seacats but that image give me bad memories....about certain incident that hurted me alot....)
>> No. 30733 edit
File 132432202132.jpg - (56.48KB , 350x441 , 1780794.jpg )
Really? I feel a similar way. There was a girl who I knew from a long way back, and I loved her with all my heart. I decided one day to her how I felt. I thought she might feel the same, or at least try to see it my way.

No such luck. She wore an expression just like that one, like she was flattered, but my attention was clearly unwanted and made her feel awkward. She always looked a lot like Jessica, part of why I like the character, and that image in particular brings back the memories strongly.

We drifted apart after that. I couldn't even enjoy the rest of the times we spent together as I beat myself up inside over what could be going through her head now that she knew how I felt, but didn't return my feelings. I still think she was almost perfect in every way, except that she wasn't mine. Kinda selfish.

Oh well. Maybe one day I'll find something like that again.
>> No. 30734 edit
not for that fact...or because she remind me of someone else...its because someone really hurted me with the intention of hurting me.

Its not a pretty story~ and it still burn me and all happened online

Anon Kinjo Cirno and I think that Gogo knows what happened~
>> No. 30735 edit
its unrelated to seacats~ so they are not involved~
>> No. 30736 edit
File 132432283984.png - (195.71KB , 300x610 , jessieloose.png )
If you say so. I feel a bit silly now after sharing that.
>> No. 30737 edit
I sort of had a similar situation, confessed (though I was confessing for no good reason to begin with) and after the rejection, we drifted apart, etc.
>> No. 30738 edit
Its not silly, it is a happy memory that you trasure~ and it hurt you to longer have you around

If only what happened to me was something nice..
>> No. 30739 edit
File 132432307840.png - (83.58KB , 268x326 , Jessica1.png )
You better stop going on about it if you're not going to tell us the details. Or you might be approaching Piece territory with attention seeking.
>> No. 30740 edit
>> No. 30741 edit
Okay, its story time with Zefur/Lion-chan
I joined a site to translate Umineko, and I set a fake profile as a female.I gained lots of unwanted
attention and I was accepted in the site for helping them in the translation. when that happened I realized that it wasn't what I wanted so decided to work on another similar project ( my beloved PS3 Patch)at that time someone didnt like me and discovered that I was working on that project.so he tell his girlfriend and a friend
to investigate me (the three were users of that site)

They managed to get my profile and reveal my true identity
they made a thread a posted photos of me and contact information
after that it was 3 days of users trolling me

I tried to defend myself by denouncing them with Witch-hunt thing
that made the situation worse....

Until Kinjo found the thread and sent Anon to help me...

I suppose that it was wrong with me for lying to them with my fake profile....but I think it was too much to do to me somthing like that...
>> No. 30742 edit
File 132432424397.jpg - (83.49KB , 400x550 , 1814981.jpg )
I see...

I once pretended to be a girl online too. I don't know what I was hoping to achieve. I guess I saw it as just a game, but it got out of hand. There was all sorts of chaos and it culminated in me being banned, afterwards I felt compelled to confess it all to the people I misled. There are still some lingering effects from that, some good, some perhaps not-so-good.

Thing is, I don't really regret it or wish I could take it back that much. I still don't understand why. You at least realized it wasn't something you wanted and probably learned from your mistake. I don't know about me.
>> No. 30743 edit
I didn't want to confess because I was in a point of No return my friendship with them became something solid...

Fortunately after the incident and just a few weeks They understood me and we are still friends.

althought that was like 8 months ago it is hurting me, but I am slowly recovering from it.
>> No. 30744 edit
File 132432467587.jpg - (60.11KB , 611x799 , 1275438974257.jpg )
I think it was only a couple of weeks or so for me. It didn't get so out of hard people got my personal information though. At least not immediately, anyway.
>> No. 30745 edit
File 130159019023.png - (38.38KB , 334x210 , puni_psyduck.png )
Super hero anon-tan, huh?
>> No. 30746 edit

I am the kind of person who likes to bottle things So I am the kind of having long time grudges.

Yup , Super-hero anon-tan~ and Kinjo-kun too~ I am very grateful to them~
>> No. 30748 edit
File 132432570590.jpg - (127.42KB , 800x800 , 1264397755048.jpg )
I usually only keep grudges if people keep grudges against me. You can't really call it a grudge when it's like that. It's a constant reaction to their own grudge.

I do keep things bottled up inside though.
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